T Nation

Pope Right On About the Muslims

Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached".

This has sent the Muslims once again into th estreets inciting violence and threatening people to prove that his words are true and right. If they don’t like the average view of “Islam” they need to quit propagating the view that the avarage Muslim is a rabid dog…

No , no, no - You don’t understand. It is the U.S.'s fault that muslims behave in this fashion.

Damn Lenoir and his invention. Damn Henry Ford and his cars.

It is all our fault.

Despite Rainjack’s usual nonsense, you can’t discount the past and how much stirring the hornets nest has had.

However, the Islamic world proves itself ready to enact violence against anyone and anything that doesn’t follow extremist dogma.

What the fuck is up with Islam that it isn’t, in the majority, simply shocked at what supposed proponents of Islam are up to on a daily basis?

Hell, from all the claptrap people tell us about Islam here, in discussions, it is supposedly a religion of peace that would not support such actions.

I’m not seeing it…

“The declarations from the pope are more dangerous than the cartoons, because they come from the most important Christian authority in the world _ the cartoons just came from an artist,” said Diaa Rashwan, an analyst in Cairo, Egypt, who studies Islamic militancy.

It did not take long… The pope protesters firebombed 4 West Bank churches, and opened fire at a fifth.

I’d say it looks, from this miserable episode, as if you can only have a conversation that deals ? however remotely ? with Islam on Muslim terms. Not much of a dialogue, then.

The Pope was absolutely correct in his analysis of Islam.

Compare Islam with Christianity:
Christ and his disciples were pacifists - as was His Church for the first few hundred years. Mohammed was a bloodthirsty murderer - personally responsible for thousands of deaths.

Early Christians were a persecuted minority. Muslims were persecutors from the very beginning.

Christ had no interest in material possessions. Mohammed was a merchant and a thief …

Christianity is a religion of love and enlightenment … Islam one of blood.

Mohammed spent most of his Medina years fighting domestic opponents and raiding caravans. During the 18 months after the first Hijira he carried out 7 raids on merchant caravans making their way to Mecca.

He took bounty and slaves and killed many people. His goal was to build up the wealth of his followers to attract more and to weaken Mecca economically before attacking it.

When Muslims try to deny this ask them about the battle of Badr. Ask about the fate of the Quraiza who in 627 were massacred. The tribe’s approximately 700 men were brought in small groups to trenches dug the previous day, made to sit on the edge, then beheaded one by one and their bodies thrown in. The women and children were sold into slavery and the poceeds (as well as the tribes possessions) were divided among the Muslims… etcetera …

There’s much to ask. Sadly, though, too many in the non-Muslim world believe the web of lies spread by the Imams and their fellow travellers.

Whilst there have been countless terrible crimes perpetrated in Christ’s name by so-called Christians, they were not ORDERED, sanctioned or accepted by Christ. They came long after ? many hundreds of years after His death. Mohammed, on the other hand, personally participated in murder.

Jesus Christ and his followers were not killers, robbers or slavers. Mohammed, and his early followers were. Christ never killed or robbed. Mohammed did.

The essential core of Christ’s message was ‘pacifist.’ The basic bedrock of Islam is ‘war.’

Killing in the name of Christ is clearly abhorrent and a perversion of His teaching. On the other hand, killing in the name of Mohammed is in line with his instructions and following his example.

Remember that “peace” can be mean many things in different cultures. Sometimes peace means happiness and friendliness, other times peace means order and lack of dissent.

In western culture, “peace” tends to mean everybody living in independence, tolerance and harmony.

In yet other cultures, “peace” means everybody living aligned to the dictated order, whether willing or not, and total elimination of those who refuse.

Sometimes the order is dictated by the state, sometimes the order is dictated by a supernatural entity.

So, what kind of “peace” are we talking about here?

Damn Pope just apologized!
It’s so stupid: the turkish critic who is responsible for all the uproar didn’t even bother to read the whole speech- which was a rather long one before an academic audience in Regensburg. During the speech, Benedikt criticized the original quote.

Even the fucktards of the OIC- the International Islamic Conference didn’t hesitate to demand an apology.
You cannot take these people seriously. Indignation is their primary tool of socializing international islam.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Damn Pope just apologized!
It’s so stupid: the turkish critic who is responsible for all the uproar didn’t even bother to read the whole speech- which was a rather long one before an academic audience in Regensburg. During the speech, Benedikt criticized the original quote.

Even the fucktards of the OIC- the International Islamic Conference didn’t hesitate to demand an apology.
You cannot take these people seriously. Indignation is their primary tool of socializing international islam. [/quote]

It was a qualified apology.The Pope still stood by the basic message of his speech,that one cannot reconcile religion and violence in any way.

And I agree with you…if followers of a religion can’t take criticism,they have a serious problem.The Pope is also very strongly in favour of religious reciprocity.A religion cannot bleat about being persecuted if it does not allow for freedom of worship for other faiths within its own tenets.

[quote]Tokoya wrote:

It did not take long… The pope protesters firebombed 4 West Bank churches, and opened fire at a fifth.
[/quote]

But, but, but, Islam is a religion of peace!

[quote]vroom wrote:
Despite Rainjack’s usual nonsense, you can’t discount the past and how much stirring the hornets nest has had.

However, the Islamic world proves itself ready to enact violence against anyone and anything that doesn’t follow extremist dogma.

What the fuck is up with Islam that it isn’t, in the majority, simply shocked at what supposed proponents of Islam are up to on a daily basis?

Hell, from all the claptrap people tell us about Islam here, in discussions, it is supposedly a religion of peace that would not support such actions.

I’m not seeing it…[/quote]

This is the part I don’t understand. I’ve heard of Muslims who don’t necesarrily support the violence, but I’ve heard pretty much no one speak out against it. Where is the outrage?

If I was a member of a supposed religion of peace, I would be doing my utmost to ensure that it wasn’t tainted by the bloodlust of the radical sects. But the muslim community appears to be silent on this issue.

So in my mind this leaves two options: either Islam promotes war, or it’s a weak and useless religion that promotes nothing.

Before I read the whole context of the speech I was rather amused. I mean, it would take some major cajones for a representative of the Roman Catholic Church to criticise another religion for being violent. “People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones” doesn’t even begin to cover it. John Paul had the right strategy for the church with his whole forgive and forget program.

Alas, I was disappointed when the context of the speech was revealed.

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
vroom wrote:
Despite Rainjack’s usual nonsense, you can’t discount the past and how much stirring the hornets nest has had.

However, the Islamic world proves itself ready to enact violence against anyone and anything that doesn’t follow extremist dogma.

What the fuck is up with Islam that it isn’t, in the majority, simply shocked at what supposed proponents of Islam are up to on a daily basis?

Hell, from all the claptrap people tell us about Islam here, in discussions, it is supposedly a religion of peace that would not support such actions.

I’m not seeing it…

This is the part I don’t understand. I’ve heard of Muslims who don’t necesarrily support the violence, but I’ve heard pretty much no one speak out against it. Where is the outrage?

If I was a member of a supposed religion of peace, I would be doing my utmost to ensure that it wasn’t tainted by the bloodlust of the radical sects. But the muslim community appears to be silent on this issue.

So in my mind this leaves two options: either Islam promotes war, or it’s a weak and useless religion that promotes nothing. [/quote]

There really isn’t a “President of Islam” to meaningfully condemn the violence. There really aren’t too many leaders in the mideast who are notable enough in the west for us or our media to take notice of stuff when they do condemn it. It seems bin Laden is the only guy with enough celebrity for it to make the news, but I don’t think we’ll be seeing him condemn violence any time soon. There have been condemnations of the violence from several mideast leaders so far though.

I can’t help but laugh though at the reactions angry young unemployed muslims give when they’re accused of being violent.

An Iraqi insurgent group threatened the Vatican with a suicide attack over the pope?s remarks on Islam, according to a statement posted Saturday on the Web.

Once again they are proving they are non-violent and mis-understood community…

If you go to Youtube you’ll find a whole lot of stuff that makes fun of Jesus. You don’t see the Christians rioting though.

I have nothing against ordinary good natured muslims who live in America who can take a fucking joke without all the protests and riots and bombings in retalliation.

[quote]RoadWarrior wrote:
An Iraqi insurgent group threatened the Vatican with a suicide attack over the pope?s remarks on Islam, according to a statement posted Saturday on the Web.

Once again they are proving they are non-violent and mis-understood community…

[/quote]

Let me tell you, that is probably the only thing that would turn me fucking inside out.

I hate to sound like a warmonger, but if that Vatican is fucking touched, than I might even support the use of nuclear weapons and a genocide.

You don’t fuck with the Pope.

I was even thinking about this today when I read about it…if there ever was any attack on the Vatican at all, I would be on a plane to Italy the next day to help them kill the murderous fucks who did it.

On the subject at hand, I honestly don’t know enough about the history of Islam to say one way or the other. It does seem more violent, but then Christianity was very violent for a very long time. It has more to do with economic conditions than anything else…when people have more money, they pay less attention to religion. Any religion owned only by the poor can be dangerous.

Either way, I don’t like where this is going.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Despite Rainjack’s usual nonsense, you can’t discount the past and how much stirring the hornets nest has had.

However, the Islamic world proves itself ready to enact violence against anyone and anything that doesn’t follow extremist dogma.

What the fuck is up with Islam that it isn’t, in the majority, simply shocked at what supposed proponents of Islam are up to on a daily basis?

Hell, from all the claptrap people tell us about Islam here, in discussions, it is supposedly a religion of peace that would not support such actions.

I’m not seeing it…[/quote]

You’re not seeing it because no one follows it. How many Christians do you know who follow the Bible perfectly? How many Jews do you see who follow the Torah perfectly? Hardly any. Same thing with muslims.

It’s not a problem with religion, its a problem with humanity. A refusal to accept each other’s beliefs on both sides and an utter lack of knowledge and rampant ignorance, again on both sides.

[quote]semper_fi wrote:
If you go to Youtube you’ll find a whole lot of stuff that makes fun of Jesus. You don’t see the Christians rioting though.

I have nothing against ordinary good natured muslims who live in America who can take a fucking joke without all the protests and riots and bombings in retalliation.
[/quote]

You’re absolutely right. Muslims are just acting retarded these days because they can’t understand that they themselves are giving off a bad vibe of the religion they represent. Instead they’re too proud and only see problems with everyone else, not themselves. Once Muslims can fix themselves, it’s over in a good way… but I’m afraid its not going to happen… as I’ve already seen in real life and on this forum, ignorant dumbass people will always be ignorant dumbass people, whether Muslim or otherwise.

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
vroom wrote:
Despite Rainjack’s usual nonsense, you can’t discount the past and how much stirring the hornets nest has had.

However, the Islamic world proves itself ready to enact violence against anyone and anything that doesn’t follow extremist dogma.

What the fuck is up with Islam that it isn’t, in the majority, simply shocked at what supposed proponents of Islam are up to on a daily basis?

Hell, from all the claptrap people tell us about Islam here, in discussions, it is supposedly a religion of peace that would not support such actions.

I’m not seeing it…

This is the part I don’t understand. I’ve heard of Muslims who don’t necesarrily support the violence, but I’ve heard pretty much no one speak out against it. Where is the outrage?

If I was a member of a supposed religion of peace, I would be doing my utmost to ensure that it wasn’t tainted by the bloodlust of the radical sects. But the muslim community appears to be silent on this issue.

So in my mind this leaves two options: either Islam promotes war, or it’s a weak and useless religion that promotes nothing. [/quote]

It is NOT the religion. It is the people… the people are weak. They refuse to speak up and admit they’re wrong, because they’re uneducated dumbass bastards who in the end only make people like you think that Islam is a violent, opressive and dangerous religion, whereas its not, because most of its followers are uneducated, live in poverty or war zones, or are just too proud of themselves even though they know nothing about their own religion.

[quote]doogie wrote:
Tokoya wrote:

It did not take long… The pope protesters firebombed 4 West Bank churches, and opened fire at a fifth.

But, but, but, Islam is a religion of peace![/quote]

Again… only one side, how many mosques in North America have been vandalized?

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Damn Pope just apologized!
It’s so stupid: the turkish critic who is responsible for all the uproar didn’t even bother to read the whole speech- which was a rather long one before an academic audience in Regensburg. During the speech, Benedikt criticized the original quote.

Even the fucktards of the OIC- the International Islamic Conference didn’t hesitate to demand an apology.
You cannot take these people seriously. Indignation is their primary tool of socializing international islam. [/quote]

Yeah it was pretty retarded, no one bothered to read the whole thing, just that little passage. I wrote to a couple of institutions emphasising this, but I got no replies. Ignorance is really bliss I guess.