Pope Pisses on America

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
The Catholic Church has its own sordid history. The question is why Benny felt the need to make this statement.

So should have he kept silent because the institution he represents behaved badly (make that VERY badly) in the past?
[/quote]

Why not keep silent? Why talk about it? Isn’t he here trying to promote goodwill? The Catholic Church is in trouble in this country. The last thing he needs is to piss people off for no reason for things that happened before any of us were born.

[quote]

Did Bush talk about the horrors of the Inquisition when he met w/ the Pope and bishops?

He can’t afford it. He’d have Iraq and Gitmo thrown in his face before he could even finish his thoughts.

The Pope’s hands are clean AFAIK.[/quote]

Pathetic. Anyone that would make such a comparison is totally full of shit.

22

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
How have they swept the sexual molestation under the rug?
[/quote]

And last I checked, people have sued the Church about that very thing. There is circumstantial evidence indicating that concealing evidence was pretty systematic.

There was a documentary last year that uncovered the complicity of high ranking clergy in the Church in such cover ups.

To go farther, that celibacy rule is evidently at the root of all the trouble, and the Pope isn’t doing anything about it. That’s sweeping under the rug is you ask me.

23

[quote]lixy wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
How have they swept the sexual molestation under the rug?

And last I checked, people have sued the Church about that very thing. There is circumstantial evidence indicating that concealing evidence was pretty systematic.

There was a documentary last year that uncovered the complicity of high ranking clergy in the Church in such cover ups.

To go farther, that celibacy rule is evidently at the root of all the trouble, and the Pope isn’t doing anything about it. That’s sweeping under the rug is you ask me.[/quote]

I’m pretty sure he meant not addressing the issues in public and not hiding evidence.

Also, what do you want to the Pope to do other than support any investigation? He’s a religous leader not the police, not a US politician, and not a lawyer. If you want him to take out the celibacy rule keep dreaming, it’s a fairly core belief.

How would celibacy make someone more likely to rape little boys? Last I checked when I go through a dry spell I still want women.

24

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
GumsMagoo wrote:
lixy wrote:
How does condemning those crimes make him a hypocrite?

Let’s see… maybe because the Roman Catholic church helped the Nazis in world war II hoard stolen Jewish assets and remained silent to the ensuing atrocities.

Oh yeah, there’s also that sexual molestation thingy they always seem to sweep under the rug.

Ohhh you must mean while the Swiss Guard were being gunned down trying to keep the Natzi’s out of the Vatican, right?

How have they swept the sexual molestation under the rug? Last I checked the Pope has commented on it at every speech thus far.

Way to watch the news there buddy.
[/quote]

Hey Crew…Congrats on finishing the Clinic, BTW. Admittedly, I wouldn’t have been able to, I got sick so many times in that time frame I couldn’t have made it. There was just nothing I could do. Kids bring home the vilest of diseases.

25

[quote]lixy wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
How have they swept the sexual molestation under the rug?

And last I checked, people have sued the Church about that very thing. There is circumstantial evidence indicating that concealing evidence was pretty systematic.

There was a documentary last year that uncovered the complicity of high ranking clergy in the Church in such cover ups.

To go farther, that celibacy rule is evidently at the root of all the trouble, and the Pope isn’t doing anything about it. That’s sweeping under the rug is you ask me.[/quote]

I disagree, requiring celibacy does not make somebody want to pork a kid in the ass or feel them up. Sick nasty people do that, like ice-cream truck drivers. Those priests who did that, would have likely done that regardless of their given vocation…Those who are still alive are just nasty people who deserve lots of pain.

The cover up was shameful and those people should have been kicked out, if they haven’t been.

26

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:

How would celibacy make someone more likely to rape little boys? Last I checked when I go through a dry spell I still want women. [/quote]

I don’t know…What are you doing tonight, Big Boy?

27

[quote]pat wrote:
lixy wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
How have they swept the sexual molestation under the rug?

And last I checked, people have sued the Church about that very thing. There is circumstantial evidence indicating that concealing evidence was pretty systematic.

There was a documentary last year that uncovered the complicity of high ranking clergy in the Church in such cover ups.

To go farther, that celibacy rule is evidently at the root of all the trouble, and the Pope isn’t doing anything about it. That’s sweeping under the rug is you ask me.

I disagree, requiring celibacy does not make somebody want to pork a kid in the ass or feel them up. Sick nasty people do that, like ice-cream truck drivers. Those priests who did that, would have likely done that regardless of their given vocation…Those who are still alive are just nasty people who deserve lots of pain.

The cover up was shameful and those people should have been kicked out, if they haven’t been. [/quote]

For a change of pace I 100% agree with Pat on this one.

28

[quote]pat wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:

How would celibacy make someone more likely to rape little boys? Last I checked when I go through a dry spell I still want women.

I don’t know…What are you doing tonight, Big Boy?[/quote]

lol ME Bench day with a fine piece of FEMALE powerlifting ass.

29

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
lixy wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
How have they swept the sexual molestation under the rug?

And last I checked, people have sued the Church about that very thing. There is circumstantial evidence indicating that concealing evidence was pretty systematic.

There was a documentary last year that uncovered the complicity of high ranking clergy in the Church in such cover ups.

To go farther, that celibacy rule is evidently at the root of all the trouble, and the Pope isn’t doing anything about it. That’s sweeping under the rug is you ask me.

I’m pretty sure he meant not addressing the issues in public and not hiding evidence.

Also, what do you want to the Pope to do other than support any investigation? He’s a religous leader not the police, not a US politician, and not a lawyer. [/quote]

C’mon…who’s bent more rules than the Catholic Church in your lifetime?

And how naive do you have to be to believe that religion and politics are separate? For heaven’s sake, millions of people think the man is the “vicar of Christ”. Plus, in case you missed it, he’s also the head of state of the Holy See which inarguably involves him in politics.

The celibacy thing was instated because women were regarded as inferior in the traditionally patriarchal institution. This sexism is still widely condoned by Orthodox Christians. A powerful illustration of this is that, as of last century, Italian women were not even allowed into the military.

Sleeping with women would jeopardize their livelihood. With kids, there’s the authoritative component that lets many get away with it.

At least, that’s how I heard a priest explain it.

30

Lixy,
If you are so concerned with women�??s rights why do you support Iran? Last I checked they had bigger issues than letting women join the army.

Thanks for your very 1 sided arguments that you impose on these threads.

The men molesting these children have nothing to do with religion. They were pedophiles to begin with who chose an occupation that could cover up their horrific morals. It is the same as a pedophile becoming a day care owner, which is also a problem. These messed up people just look for ways in which they can have power over children to take advantage of them and unfortunately this happened to be one of them. To say that following a religious rule turned them into a pedophile is just ridiculous.

31

On a slightly related note, I looked at some photos from the Pope’s trip to America on Fox’s website this morning, and I saw so many pictures of rampant materialism from this trip.

People were buying bags (bags replete with the “logo” of the Papal visit, no less) full of trinkets from the visit; people filling up gift shops and taking photos of themselves next to a cut of of Benedict. It looked like a damn rock star had come to town, not the Pope.

While looking at those photos, the passage from the Bible where Jesus clears out the merchants from the temple kept coming to my mind.

“My father’s house is a place of worship,
but you have made it a den of thieves!”

I realize that it’s not like the Pope himself is profiting from this, but I would’ve liked for him to remind everyone that buying and selling souvenirs is not the point of the visit.

Maybe I’m being overly cynical, but I wasn’t too pleased to notice that the difference between a concert selling t-shirts and people selling “Pope - 2008!” coffee mugs during the visit was rather insignificant.

32

[quote]lixy wrote:

The celibacy thing was instated because women were regarded as inferior in the traditionally patriarchal institution. This sexism is still widely condoned by Orthodox Christians. A powerful illustration of this is that, as of last century, Italian women were not even allowed into the military.

Sleeping with women would jeopardize their livelihood. With kids, there’s the authoritative component that lets many get away with it.

At least, that’s how I heard a priest explain it.[/quote]

It would do us all well to read up on your priest’s assertions. Traditionally, Christianity is the single most uplifting religion toward women in the world. Do you think it random chance that the Western World (Christian World) has women suffrage, women’s rights and even women rulers and queens? Ever checked out how women are regarded in cultures influenced by Islam, Hindu, Buddism, etc.? How many historical women of power can you name from China, India, Egypt (since the rise of Islam)? This invective towards the Catholic Church are but corn in the gristmill of facts.

More to your point, the church instituted celibacy for reasons totally separate from some inferior opinion of their gender. There are ample sources of good work on the ideas of celibacy within the Catholic Church. Personally, I think the reasons are without merit nor valid, however, they are available for all to find and discuss.

We are all free to hate the church, their policies, etc. However, an institution over 1,800 years old requires subtlety and perspective of thought in order to understand. It is not so easy to paint a picture of it’s history with a single color in a single stroke.

33

[quote]pat wrote:
You are concerned about statements made in 2008 with regards to events as they took place up to 1537?

Yawn. Whatever.[/quote]

I gave compelling evidence that the Vatican was complicit in the very nefarious affairs he needed to chastise America over.

Let me, once again, quote:

“Americans have always been a people of hope,” he said during his homily. "Your ancestors came to this country with the experience of finding new freedom and opportunity.

“To be sure, this promise was not experienced by all the inhabitants of this land; one thinks of the injustices endured by the native American peoples and by those brought here forcibly from Africa as slaves.”

I’m sorry such evidence of the current Pope’s lack of historical understanding and diplomacy leaves you with such attention deficit, pat.

It’s reprehensible and should be called out.

34

Cardinal Law is all I have to say

35

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
The Catholic Church has its own sordid history. The question is why Benny felt the need to make this statement.

So should have he kept silent because the institution he represents behaved badly (make that VERY badly) in the past?

[/quote]
oh, so naive lixy. If he had come out and said his institution was complicit in these affairs… then he could talk.

[quote]Did Bush talk about the horrors of the Inquisition when he met w/ the Pope and bishops?

He can’t afford it. He’d have Iraq and Gitmo thrown in his face before he could even finish his thoughts.

The Pope’s hands are clean AFAIK.[/quote]

No. It’s not like that. We are talking about denigrating a current country for sins hundreds of years old, which the accuser (The Vatican - as he is the leader and representative of God on Earth) was complicity involved.

36

[quote]orion wrote:

It is obviously the OP who is confusing past and present because he hypocrite condemns something he does himself. Since the current Pope neither trades slaves nor murders Indians or has any part in such ventures he is hardly a hypocrite.
[/quote]

stokedporcupine wrote:

Don’t be obtuse, orion.

37

[quote]kroby wrote:
orion wrote:

It is obviously the OP who is confusing past and present because he hypocrite condemns something he does himself. Since the current Pope neither trades slaves nor murders Indians or has any part in such ventures he is hardly a hypocrite.

stokedporcupine wrote:

thus, this is a hypocritical act because the pope has scorned America for a thing which his own church participated in, while not acknowledging the churches participation.

Don’t be obtuse, orion.[/quote]

Anyway, I do not get why it bothers you if anyone criticizes this part of Americas past.

This can hardly be something you identify with.

38

[quote]pat wrote:
GumsMagoo wrote:
lixy wrote:
How does condemning those crimes make him a hypocrite?

Let’s see… maybe because the Roman Catholic church helped the Nazis in world war II hoard stolen Jewish assets and remained silent to the ensuing atrocities.

Oh yeah, there’s also that sexual molestation thingy they always seem to sweep under the rug.

Please provide links to substantiate those statements. Those are pretty heavy duty accusations, you may want to actually be right. [/quote]

39

And one more for ya Pat:

http://www.irsss.ca/history.html

40

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
If you are so concerned with women�??s rights why do you support Iran? Last I checked they had bigger issues than letting women join the army. [/quote]

True. But I don’t support Iran in the way that you’re trying to portray it. I support Iran’s sovereignty over its own land, the right of its inhabitants to be ruled by people who weren’t put in power as pawns of some imperial power, their right to not be bombed or invaded in blatant aggression, and finally their right to civil nuclear energy.

If I ever came off as supporting them, it is because others were calling for violence.

Rest assured that I don’t condone any of their crap regarding women’s rights.

Absolutely!

You can’t possibly know that.

So ridiculous be I.

I refuse to believe that celibacy is not having profound effects on them.