T Nation

Pope Criminalizes Leaks, Sex Abuse


Curious to Hear from the Catholics on this one


Pope Francis overhauled the laws that govern the Vatican City State on Thursday, criminalizing leaks of Vatican information and specifically listing sexual violence, prostitution and possession of child pornography as crimes against children that can be punished by up to 12 years in prison.

"Sexual crimes did exist in the previous law, but in a general form in the archaic code as a crime against "good customs."

The new law defines crimes against children under age 18, including the sale of children, child prostitution, recruiting children, sexual violence, sexual acts with children and the production and possession of child pornography."


Sounds good.


I guess I don't see how criminalizing leaks at all or to a greater extent is a good thing. We're not talking about national security here.


The Vatican is it own Sovereign country. So it kind of is national security.


How though? I mean if Snowden only released information that Boehner had pedophile pics on his hard drive how does that affect national security especially now that it is no longer a secret (i.e. he can't be blackmailed)


It waters down what the Roman Catholic Church preaches. If the Leaders are not following what they preach should the people believe them and follow them?

I believe there is sin and no human is immune to it, so it does not bother me, but others it might.


Because of confidentiality agreements. Be it finances or whatever. Cooperating with whatever law enforcement applies is one thing, leaking is another.


Seems strange to me. Seems like a biblical organization would heed the good book and put the sin first not punishing the witness. Leviticus 5:1

"And if a soul sins, and hears the voice of an oath, and is a witness, whether he has seen or known of it; if he does not tell of it, then he shall bear his iniquity."


Contact the regulatory body, law enforcement, or whatever that has jurisdiction.


Actually we are. The Vatican is a sovereign state, it's own country autonomous and independent just like any other country. Leaking information is tantamount to spying and is a security risk to the government of the Vatican.
I am sure many people don't mind, but I don't want security procedures and such getting leaked so haters and nuts can find the weakness in papal security and wax my Pope. Especially this one. Francis is a good egg and I think he is making good changes in simplifying the religious life of Catholic leaders and bringing simplicity and humility to the forefront of Catholic culture. Hence, I am not looking for anyone to pop a cap in his ass just yet.


The schedule of security details, security processes, evacuation plans, weaknesses in structures are all very appealing to those who hate us and want to kill us. It's a country, it's a national security issue.

Snowden didn't release national security info, he told us our government is spying on us waaaaay beyond the reach of the law and he felt we needed to know and I applaud him for it.His move was borderline, but I think he took great care in not revealing security info, he was telling on the government for overreach.
If the U.S. was smart, rather than trying to arrest him and make him run for his life to countries of questionable relationship, the grant him full immunity, bring him back home and testify before congress on his findings. That way, you keep his knowledge out of the hands of our enemies. He doesn't seem to me to be the type to take a bullet to protect information on a country that has forsaken him.


People are human and do make mistakes. The point of having a central religious authority is so that you speak with one voice. It's like a family, you may have disagreements in your family, but nobody can say anything bad about your family but you.
In issues of religiousocity and dogma the church must speak with one voice otherwise, it serves to confuse and misdirect Catholics.

So in other words, we handle our debates in house. That doesn't mean we don't have decent, that doesn't mean decent is a bad thing, it means that we handle our family disputes in the family and not in the public forum. If a position changes or something new comes out, it is spoken clearly with one voice.


Well if we are getting biblical:

"When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? (1 Corinthians 6:1-4, ESV)"


I mean I do understand tightening up punishment for leaks on structural data, perimeter security, data caches, etc. but how exactly does someone outing a high ranking member of the clergy for NOT FOLLOWING THE WORD OF GOD affect national security?
I actually agree with you on Snowden, I commend him in fact and I actually commend a lot of what wikileaks did, not all of it but a chunk of it for sure.


I mean I'm assuming here but wouldn't the leak to outsiders be the case because you either feared reprisal or dismissal (burying the info) from your colleagues? Either way what kind of message does it send to you as a Catholic that the top leader of your organization wants stiffer penalties on people that out pedophiles?


I think you are confused. Leaks aren't referring to criminal activities outside the jurisdiction of the country. However, within the country it has it's own penal system to deal with crimes committed with in it's borders. Countries typically do not extradite criminals to other countries for crimes committed within it's borders. On top of that, he's advocating stiffer penalties for any such crimes against humanity. Again, you have to think of it as a country, because it is a sovereign nation.


Ya know after re-reading multiple articles I think the verbiage confused me. I thought that he was criminalizing leaks having to do with child abuse not criminalizing leaks AND child abuse/sex. Mea culpa. I do think "up to 12 years" for diddling a child is too weak but that's their prerogative. It is strange that the motive for the move was based (it seems) on the leaking of letters to the previous pope that outed wrong behaviors (homosexuality, child porn) which pretty much tells you that the letters were being ignored if the person felt compelled to go outside the church to leak them.


I agree, child molestation deserves a tall tree and a short rope. I don't care who does it. If you grievously hurt a child, you should pay with your life. You are less than dog shit to me. If you cannot help but be attracted to children sexually, I think the world is better off without you in it.


VatiLeaks? We're talking about more than national security, this is spiritual matters that should be kept confidential.


Because the butler released highly confidential letters and documents that unnecessarily exposed victims/laity to media scrutiny?