T Nation

Poorer Gains from Subsequent PH Cycles


#1

As above. For my first cycle I ran epistane (40mg) for 6 weeks and got pretty good results from it (about 8lbs mass gain and 1lb fat loss). I did a 6 week PCT before doing halodrol+trenabol (75mg/20mg) and gained about 2lbs and lost 2lbs. Then I did a 4 week PCT, started taking super DMZ 2.0 and 3 weeks into the cycle I have not gained anything significant.

The only benefit I'm getting now are the pumps while training. I'm curious as to why this is happening, is it because the body is somehow getting used to the PHs despite them being different compounds, and that my PCT length is too short for subsequent cycles to be effective?

For reference I had a friend who ran super DMZ 2.0 and gained 4lbs in his first week, 12lbs over 4 weeks. I probably gained only 1lb (from increased water retention), so I'm thinking of just stopping the cycle and doing a 8 week PCT before jumping back onto epistane (the one that gave me the best results).

Thoughts and opinions? Thanks guys.


#2

My advice stop fucking with shitty PHs and run a real cycle.


#3

[quote]Reed wrote:
My advice stop fucking with shitty PHs and run a real cycle.[/quote]

I will once I get my hands on a reliable source. Will the same problem I’ve faced with PHs surface with real gear? Such as a drastic drop in gains for subsequent cycles. Is it an issue with the PH, or with the length of my PCT?


#4

[quote]jaegermeister wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:
My advice stop fucking with shitty PHs and run a real cycle.[/quote]

I will once I get my hands on a reliable source. Will the same problem I’ve faced with PHs surface with real gear? Such as a drastic drop in gains for subsequent cycles. Is it an issue with the PH, or with the length of my PCT?[/quote]

Your gains from gear will be much more reliable and consistant but, with any drug your body is going to need more and more after time passes how ever a simple increase in Test by 100mg can do loads for you. But you cant expect to replicate your exact gains from your first real cycle every single time you do a new cycle. If it worked like that after 3-4 500-600mg Test cycles we would all be 240lbs plus. Unfortunatly its not that easy. As for the PH I have no clue I ran them one time years ago and I hated everything about them. Saw very minimum gains saw more neg sides from them than I have seen from 1000mg+ a week of gear.


#5

Its hard to say.

It depends alot on which compounds you take and in what combination or dosage. You may find through experience a combo you enjoy but it is unlikely you top your first experience, unless perhaps you take something stronger or at a much higher dose than your first go through.

Some other things that may play into it is how developed your body is already, dietary considerations and also the success of your PCT.

If your pct blows then you cant expect to hold on to much, im curious as to what you were taking you never mentioned.


#6

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]jaegermeister wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:
My advice stop fucking with shitty PHs and run a real cycle.[/quote]

I will once I get my hands on a reliable source. Will the same problem I’ve faced with PHs surface with real gear? Such as a drastic drop in gains for subsequent cycles. Is it an issue with the PH, or with the length of my PCT?[/quote]

Your gains from gear will be much more reliable and consistant but, with any drug your body is going to need more and more after time passes how ever a simple increase in Test by 100mg can do loads for you. But you cant expect to replicate your exact gains from your first real cycle every single time you do a new cycle. If it worked like that after 3-4 500-600mg Test cycles we would all be 240lbs plus. Unfortunatly its not that easy. As for the PH I have no clue I ran them one time years ago and I hated everything about them. Saw very minimum gains saw more neg sides from them than I have seen from 1000mg+ a week of gear.[/quote]

Reed is correct. Gains from AAS will be more substantial and maintainable, given you have your shit together (diet and training).

But yes, as you proceed from cycle to cycle, you will inevitably need higher doses and or more compounds to gain.

As Walkaway likes to say, you are only as big as your dose.


#7

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]jaegermeister wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:
My advice stop fucking with shitty PHs and run a real cycle.[/quote]

I will once I get my hands on a reliable source. Will the same problem I’ve faced with PHs surface with real gear? Such as a drastic drop in gains for subsequent cycles. Is it an issue with the PH, or with the length of my PCT?[/quote]

Your gains from gear will be much more reliable and consistant but, with any drug your body is going to need more and more after time passes how ever a simple increase in Test by 100mg can do loads for you. But you cant expect to replicate your exact gains from your first real cycle every single time you do a new cycle. If it worked like that after 3-4 500-600mg Test cycles we would all be 240lbs plus. Unfortunatly its not that easy. As for the PH I have no clue I ran them one time years ago and I hated everything about them. Saw very minimum gains saw more neg sides from them than I have seen from 1000mg+ a week of gear.[/quote]

Reed is correct. Gains from AAS will be more substantial and maintainable, given you have your shit together (diet and training).

But yes, as you proceed from cycle to cycle, you will inevitably need higher doses and or more compounds to gain.

As Walkaway likes to say, you are only as big as your dose.[/quote]

Which is why I am thinking of going ridiculous high this next cycle to see how right he is haha
Like 2g Test, 1g Tren, and 750 Deca. Home brew everything so it is reasonably inexpensive lol


#8

yes it gets harder and harder to add weight as you get heavier… im sure you did not increase calories when you needed to… there are other variables that need to change in addition to the inclusion of aas/increase in dose, etc.

I ran super dmz 2.0 once… felt sick after the first week… you should stop abusing your body with those toxic substances.

Reed, id suggest that you diet down, and look into insulin before you begin mega-dosing aas… it will be healthier that way

im going to start using humulin R, 3x a day, 4 times a week in my next blast. about 30 IU/day to start off hoping to end up around 45 IU/day


#9

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]jaegermeister wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:
My advice stop fucking with shitty PHs and run a real cycle.[/quote]

I will once I get my hands on a reliable source. Will the same problem I’ve faced with PHs surface with real gear? Such as a drastic drop in gains for subsequent cycles. Is it an issue with the PH, or with the length of my PCT?[/quote]

Your gains from gear will be much more reliable and consistant but, with any drug your body is going to need more and more after time passes how ever a simple increase in Test by 100mg can do loads for you. But you cant expect to replicate your exact gains from your first real cycle every single time you do a new cycle. If it worked like that after 3-4 500-600mg Test cycles we would all be 240lbs plus. Unfortunatly its not that easy. As for the PH I have no clue I ran them one time years ago and I hated everything about them. Saw very minimum gains saw more neg sides from them than I have seen from 1000mg+ a week of gear.[/quote]

Reed is correct. Gains from AAS will be more substantial and maintainable, given you have your shit together (diet and training).

But yes, as you proceed from cycle to cycle, you will inevitably need higher doses and or more compounds to gain.

As Walkaway likes to say, you are only as big as your dose.[/quote]

Which is why I am thinking of going ridiculous high this next cycle to see how right he is haha
Like 2g Test, 1g Tren, and 750 Deca. Home brew everything so it is reasonably inexpensive lol[/quote]

Jesus lol! Watch that blood pressure man


#10

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
yes it gets harder and harder to add weight as you get heavier… im sure you did not increase calories when you needed to… there are other variables that need to change in addition to the inclusion of aas/increase in dose, etc.

I ran super dmz 2.0 once… felt sick after the first week… you should stop abusing your body with those toxic substances.

Reed, id suggest that you diet down, and look into insulin before you begin mega-dosing aas… it will be healthier that way

im going to start using humulin R, 3x a day, 4 times a week in my next blast. about 30 IU/day to start off hoping to end up around 45 IU/day[/quote]

I ran superdrol and made it for about 6 days before I felt ill and said fuck it.

Man…insulin just scares the shit out of me.


#11

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

Man…insulin just scares the shit out of me.[/quote]

why?


#12

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
yes it gets harder and harder to add weight as you get heavier… im sure you did not increase calories when you needed to… there are other variables that need to change in addition to the inclusion of aas/increase in dose, etc.

I ran super dmz 2.0 once… felt sick after the first week… you should stop abusing your body with those toxic substances.

Reed, id suggest that you diet down, and look into insulin before you begin mega-dosing aas… it will be healthier that way

im going to start using humulin R, 3x a day, 4 times a week in my next blast. about 30 IU/day to start off hoping to end up around 45 IU/day[/quote]

Not really sure about insulin plus have zero access to it. But, I do plan on leaning abit for sure I would like to get down to 200-210 before November this year. I still wouldn’t be crazy lean but, much prettier than I am now.


#13

You could try training better…nah forget about that take more steroids.


#14

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
yes it gets harder and harder to add weight as you get heavier… im sure you did not increase calories when you needed to… there are other variables that need to change in addition to the inclusion of aas/increase in dose, etc.

I ran super dmz 2.0 once… felt sick after the first week… you should stop abusing your body with those toxic substances.

Reed, id suggest that you diet down, and look into insulin before you begin mega-dosing aas… it will be healthier that way

im going to start using humulin R, 3x a day, 4 times a week in my next blast. about 30 IU/day to start off hoping to end up around 45 IU/day[/quote]

Not really sure about insulin plus have zero access to it. But, I do plan on leaning abit for sure I would like to get down to 200-210 before November this year. I still wouldn’t be crazy lean but, much prettier than I am now. [/quote]

no access to insulin? you can walk into a walgreens, walmart, maybe even cvs and tell the pharmacist that you need a bottle of humulin R and they will give it to you. you don’t need a script for it.

Humalog and lantus are different stories I believe


#15

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

Man…insulin just scares the shit out of me.[/quote]

why?[/quote]

Just bc if you fuck up one time with it you could die lol.


#16

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
yes it gets harder and harder to add weight as you get heavier… im sure you did not increase calories when you needed to… there are other variables that need to change in addition to the inclusion of aas/increase in dose, etc.

I ran super dmz 2.0 once… felt sick after the first week… you should stop abusing your body with those toxic substances.

Reed, id suggest that you diet down, and look into insulin before you begin mega-dosing aas… it will be healthier that way

im going to start using humulin R, 3x a day, 4 times a week in my next blast. about 30 IU/day to start off hoping to end up around 45 IU/day[/quote]

Not really sure about insulin plus have zero access to it. But, I do plan on leaning abit for sure I would like to get down to 200-210 before November this year. I still wouldn’t be crazy lean but, much prettier than I am now. [/quote]

no access to insulin? you can walk into a walgreens, walmart, maybe even cvs and tell the pharmacist that you need a bottle of humulin R and they will give it to you. you don’t need a script for it.

Humalog and lantus are different stories I believe[/quote]

Seriously??? How can I get that and not need a script? Never have heard of this. According any info I can find it says only available with Script in TN and GA.


#17

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

Man…insulin just scares the shit out of me.[/quote]

why?[/quote]

Just bc if you fuck up one time with it you could die lol.[/quote]

you have to try to fuck up honestly… it’s way safer throwing insulin into the mix and using lower doses of aas than it is blasting aas at high doses


#18

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
yes it gets harder and harder to add weight as you get heavier… im sure you did not increase calories when you needed to… there are other variables that need to change in addition to the inclusion of aas/increase in dose, etc.

I ran super dmz 2.0 once… felt sick after the first week… you should stop abusing your body with those toxic substances.

Reed, id suggest that you diet down, and look into insulin before you begin mega-dosing aas… it will be healthier that way

im going to start using humulin R, 3x a day, 4 times a week in my next blast. about 30 IU/day to start off hoping to end up around 45 IU/day[/quote]

Not really sure about insulin plus have zero access to it. But, I do plan on leaning abit for sure I would like to get down to 200-210 before November this year. I still wouldn’t be crazy lean but, much prettier than I am now. [/quote]

no access to insulin? you can walk into a walgreens, walmart, maybe even cvs and tell the pharmacist that you need a bottle of humulin R and they will give it to you. you don’t need a script for it.

Humalog and lantus are different stories I believe[/quote]

Seriously??? How can I get that and not need a script? Never have heard of this. According any info I can find it says only available with Script in TN and GA. [/quote]

strange… where I live you don’t need a script, im on the east coast


#19

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
yes it gets harder and harder to add weight as you get heavier… im sure you did not increase calories when you needed to… there are other variables that need to change in addition to the inclusion of aas/increase in dose, etc.

I ran super dmz 2.0 once… felt sick after the first week… you should stop abusing your body with those toxic substances.

Reed, id suggest that you diet down, and look into insulin before you begin mega-dosing aas… it will be healthier that way

im going to start using humulin R, 3x a day, 4 times a week in my next blast. about 30 IU/day to start off hoping to end up around 45 IU/day[/quote]

Not really sure about insulin plus have zero access to it. But, I do plan on leaning abit for sure I would like to get down to 200-210 before November this year. I still wouldn’t be crazy lean but, much prettier than I am now. [/quote]

no access to insulin? you can walk into a walgreens, walmart, maybe even cvs and tell the pharmacist that you need a bottle of humulin R and they will give it to you. you don’t need a script for it.

Humalog and lantus are different stories I believe[/quote]

Seriously??? How can I get that and not need a script? Never have heard of this. According any info I can find it says only available with Script in TN and GA. [/quote]

strange… where I live you don’t need a script, im on the east coast[/quote]

Yeah East Coast is a little bit more tolerant of stuff like this. Literally last night a friend of mine got pulled over by police for tinted windowns. They searched and found 2 20mg Dbol on him and are charging him with 2 counts of Class D Felony Possession. Its stupid hard to get any thing over here. Even the standard half inch Diabetic Needles you can probably buy at most super markets and pharmacies are damn near impossible get here with out something showing you actually have a script or at least a vial of it with your name on it.


#20

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
yes it gets harder and harder to add weight as you get heavier… im sure you did not increase calories when you needed to… there are other variables that need to change in addition to the inclusion of aas/increase in dose, etc.

I ran super dmz 2.0 once… felt sick after the first week… you should stop abusing your body with those toxic substances.

Reed, id suggest that you diet down, and look into insulin before you begin mega-dosing aas… it will be healthier that way

im going to start using humulin R, 3x a day, 4 times a week in my next blast. about 30 IU/day to start off hoping to end up around 45 IU/day[/quote]

Your pretty big now walkway, do you think that a person should be a certain size before messing with slin? Or have a number of successful(haha) cycles under their belt before they start messing with it?