T Nation

Poor Man's PWO Nutrition

I can only afford whey protein for my PWO nutrition, and that’s it. I really want to follow Berardi’s advice of 0.8g/kilo carb to 0.4g/kilo protein (i’m 100 kg). I can’t follow it exactly, but I just want to take the quantities with a good source of carbs with my protein.

Like I said, I buy the protein, but I don’t know about the carbs, can’t afford any more supps. I’ve done a bit of studying and have found that honey and baked potatoes are high on the glycemic index.

Which would be better to take with my protein PWO:

100g honey (82g carb (about 1/2 fructose, 1/2 glucose))
Glycemic Index = 87 Glycemic Load = 56

or

350g flesh of baked potato (about 80g starchy carbs)
Glycemic Index = not sure, 80 - 100 (Help?)
Glycemic Load = not sure (Help?) lower than honey though

I don’t know much about GI or GL or if 100% starchy carbs are better than 1/2 and 1/2 fructose and glucose or if honey would absorb faster and therefore be better than potatoes, or if maybe there’s something completely different I could eat, but I know somebody here has the answers, this place hasn’t let me down yet!! Thanks a million!!!

[quote]danian1 wrote:
I can only afford whey protein for my PWO nutrition, and that’s it. I really want to follow Berardi’s advice of 0.8g/kilo carb to 0.4g/kilo protein (i’m 100 kg). I can’t follow it exactly, but I just want to take the quantities with a good source of carbs with my protein.

Like I said, I buy the protein, but I don’t know about the carbs, can’t afford any more supps. I’ve done a bit of studying and have found that honey and baked potatoes are high on the glycemic index.

Which would be better to take with my protein PWO:

100g honey (82g carb (about 1/2 fructose, 1/2 glucose))
Glycemic Index = 87 Glycemic Load = 56

or

350g flesh of baked potato (about 80g starchy carbs)
Glycemic Index = not sure, 80 - 100 (Help?)
Glycemic Load = not sure (Help?) lower than honey though

I don’t know much about GI or GL or if 100% starchy carbs are better than 1/2 and 1/2 fructose and glucose or if honey would absorb faster and therefore be better than potatoes, or if maybe there’s something completely different I could eat, but I know somebody here has the answers, this place hasn’t let me down yet!! Thanks a million!!!
[/quote]

Just an FYI, it has been recommended that if one cannot obtain Surge or a similar specially formulated post-workout shake, then chocolate milk is the next best substitute as far as effects on insulin and cortisol suppression and nutrient delivery following a workout.

Chocolate milk all the way!

[quote]sarah1 wrote:
Chocolate milk all the way![/quote]

Yep.

If chocolate milk is more than $2 / serving, then Surge is actually cheaper. :wink:

[quote]florin wrote:
If chocolate milk is more than $2 / serving, then Surge is actually cheaper. ;-)[/quote]

Actually that shitty prepackaged chocolate milk is pretty expensive, but you can do it yourself, very easy and cheap:

Some whole/skimmed milk + 1 teaspoon of hershey’s natural unsweetened cocoa powder + some dextro.

milk and whey isolate plus a banana and honey will do nicely too.

Grow! Whey + Gatorade powder is also a cheap, tasty, alternative. I think I prefer chocolate milk however.

How can you afford whey, but not afford some carbs? 7 lbs of maltodextrin is about 13 bucks. Get yourself some.

[quote]Kamran114 wrote:
How can you afford whey, but not afford some carbs? 7 lbs of maltodextrin is about 13 bucks. Get yourself some.[/quote]

this is true. i buy my maltodextrin and dextrose both from a small store that sells beer brewing supplies and ingredients. they are both much cheaper than they whey protein i add to them.

[quote]Kamran114 wrote:
How can you afford whey, but not afford some carbs? 7 lbs of maltodextrin is about 13 bucks. Get yourself some.[/quote]

Sadly enough, can’t find dextrose or maltodextin anywhere, I’ve tried. I’m actually in spain at the moment, and I’ve even been to beer and wine making shops and they never have any idea what I’m talking about when I ask, maybe I’m translating wrong, who knows. I will try more pharmacies (vitamin shoppe?) though.

To the others who say to buy Surge etc etc, many people (americans) don’t realize that american supplements are MUCH MUCH MUCH more money than in the USA. It would not be strange to find an american protein that costs $50 in the states, and see it sold for 70 - 80 euros in europe ($100 - $120)!!! It’s bullshit, but what can I do. If I order via internet, it could be a bit cheaper, but not much because of shipping and for the cheapest shipping I would have to wait weeks!! I’m tempted to move back to the US more and more since I started lifting weights, not only for the supps, but for the better gyms too, you should all see the joke im in now :frowning:

And to all the chocolate milk people:

The carbs are lactose and sucrose, is that still going the recharge my glycogen stores?

Do I add whey to the milk too? and if so would that slow the delivery of my hard-earned protein?

Thanks everybody!

And nobody told me which is better, suck down 350 grams of baked/mashed potatoes or 100 grams of honey? Anybody?

[quote]danian1 wrote:
Kamran114 wrote:
How can you afford whey, but not afford some carbs? 7 lbs of maltodextrin is about 13 bucks. Get yourself some.

Sadly enough, can’t find dextrose or maltodextin anywhere, I’ve tried. I’m actually in spain at the moment, and I’ve even been to beer and wine making shops and they never have any idea what I’m talking about when I ask, maybe I’m translating wrong, who knows. I will try more pharmacies (vitamin shoppe?) though.

To the others who say to buy Surge etc etc, many people (americans) don’t realize that american supplements are MUCH MUCH MUCH more money than in the USA. It would not be strange to find an american protein that costs $50 in the states, and see it sold for 70 - 80 euros in europe ($100 - $120)!!! It’s bullshit, but what can I do. If I order via internet, it could be a bit cheaper, but not much because of shipping and for the cheapest shipping I would have to wait weeks!! I’m tempted to move back to the US more and more since I started lifting weights, not only for the supps, but for the better gyms too, you should all see the joke im in now :frowning:

And to all the chocolate milk people:

The carbs are lactose and sucrose, is that still going the recharge my glycogen stores?

Do I add whey to the milk too? and if so would that slow the delivery of my hard-earned protein?

Thanks everybody!

[/quote]

The carb source in milk is lactose which is a disaccharide that breaks down into glucose and galactose in you body.
You can add why with milk to enhance the AAs and protein content but milk has a set ratio already of carbs ratio of 3:1 which is close to being optimal for protein synthesis.

Slow delivery of you hard-earned protein? Maybe so, but like i said your getting more AA and your body is getting fed with those nutrients over a longer period of time.

Thanks everybody!!!

Just went to a pharmacy and got lucky. There was a really hot girl working there, and she actually knew what I was talking about and she knew what I wanted to use it for before I said anything (amazing, the girl of my dreams)! She had some glucose tablets, 5 grams each but I told her I needed bulk and she did some searching for me and found a laboratory that had pure dextrose by the kilo.

THE BEST PART: 1 kilo, get this, is only 5.40 euro. OMFG this chick was getting sexier by the minute!! So she called an order, and I’ll have 3 kilos of laboratory grade dextrose by 5 o’clock this afternoon (sexier and sexier and sexier…). That makes me really freakin happy, even aroused… I’m gonna go pick this shit up, take this broad for a drink, and if I’m not fucking her by tonight I’m gonna go make some homemade creatine, Thanks everyone!!!

Didn’t I read that you are trying to diet down from over 20% bodyfat? You’d do better to nix the PWO carbs altogether and spend your $ on extra BCAAs to take peri and post workout.

[quote]RIT Jared wrote:
Didn’t I read that you are trying to diet down from over 20% bodyfat? You’d do better to nix the PWO carbs altogether and spend your $ on extra BCAAs to take peri and post workout.[/quote]

Good spot. All you need is some protein and BCAA’s after a workout when cutting down.

[quote]rsg wrote:
Good spot. All you need is some protein and BCAA’s after a workout when cutting down.[/quote]

I think Shugart experiment (Surge Project, or something like that) with T-Nation members showed that this isn’t necessarily the case.

I experience better results with less soreness and faster recovery while using Surge, even when I’m focussed on getting leaner.

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
rsg wrote:
Good spot. All you need is some protein and BCAA’s after a workout when cutting down.

I think Shugart experiment (Surge Project, or something like that) with T-Nation members showed that this isn’t necessarily the case.

I experience better results with less soreness and faster recovery while using Surge, even when I’m focussed on getting leaner.[/quote]

I guess it largely depends on whether or not he’s on a ketogenic diet. I remember reading the Double-Dose Surge article and if I’m not mistaken most of the participants were trying to gain weight, except for one, who admittedly said that his weight loss slowed while doing the Double Dose project.

“Optimal” workout nutrition is largely dependent on goals, and when my goal is losing as much fat as possible in as little time as possible, I’ll replace the sugary carbs (and extra calories) for BCAAs and glutamine, a la Christian Thibadeau’s approach.

[quote]RIT Jared wrote:

I guess it largely depends on whether or not he’s on a ketogenic diet. I remember reading the Double-Dose Surge article and if I’m not mistaken most of the participants were trying to gain weight, except for one, who admittedly said that his weight loss slowed while doing the Double Dose project.

“Optimal” workout nutrition is largely dependent on goals, and when my goal is losing as much fat as possible in as little time as possible, I’ll replace the sugary carbs (and extra calories) for BCAAs and glutamine, a la Christian Thibadeau’s approach. [/quote]

Here is what I want to know though, and this is what I alluded to in the other post.

When most people replace something such as Surge with BCAAs/Glutamine/Glycine (which do contain calories, though most people don’t count them) the end result is not only a reduction in carb/sugar intake, but also a reduction in total calories for the day.

Now, assuming two isocaloric diets are used, one utilizing a post-workout recovery shake such as Surge (Diet-A) and one using an amino-acid post workout protocol (Diet-B), which diet would lead to overall greater retention of muscle mass, maintenance of energy and gym performance, and rate of fat loss?

Would consuming Surge post-workout, in a hypocaloric environment, alter substrate utilization for energy production to an extent that would result in slower fat loss?

Again, this question is asked in the context the the two diets contain:

1)the same total number of calories
2)high fat, moderate protein intake, and otherwise low carb intake except for Diet-A’s post-workout Surge.

Ultimately, I’m thinking this is largely based on the individual’s biochemistry and body composition, thus their carb tolerance, protein turnover rates, etc etc. Like as has been espoused, it is recommended that leaner individuals utilize something such as Surge, while those who are higher than 12% (I think) are generally recommended to go with the Whey/Glycine/Leucine/Glutamine combo.

Has anyone ever been precise enough to compare these two approaches under these conditions? For the record, I am nixing my Surge for now, but am also being stricter about adhering to a set calorie intake as well.

We shall see how it goes.

Oh, shit.

Just realized this has been a major hijack. My apologies to the OP.