T Nation

Poor Man's Cycle!

Pharma
#1

Greetings fellow T-Nation brothers. Just joined up with this site. I need some info on what cycle i should run for my first time. Im going to be competing in the future as well.

I plan on being a bodybuider this 10 years down the road and longer, hell for the rest of my life!

Have used clenbuterol before and at the moment am using T3 tapering up and down, using a max of 50mga day with extremely high protein diet, creatine, BCAA’s, Fish/Flax Oil to prevent catabolism.

Stats:

6"2
235lbs
15% BF
2 years training experience
Want to compete

Diet: High Protein, low-moderate carb (just sticking to oatmeal, essential fats (Flaxseed oil 2-3 Tbsp a day)

Goal: Cutting & adding a little muscle

Was thining of doing primobolan but its faked a lot and the effective dose will cost me way more than the test so decided not to. Was thinking of Var but again too expensive.

The only other oral i could do is Winny 25mg ED for 4 weeks at the beginning of the cycle thoughts?

Anyway…

Wk 1-10 Test Enanthate 500mg a week
(either 500mg once a week or 250mg mon and 250mg thur)

PCT Clomid though im not sure how much i’d need for my size?

I have a bit of nolva on hand lol 6 tablets in case of gyno during cycle, though i’d need more just in case but can’t afford it right now.

Was thinking of running an AI like letrozole to minimize bloat but again not enough money :frowning:

Pretty basic cycle im about to do as im not a rich guy so i cant afford much. What are peoples ideas on cheap effective cycles?

#2

[quote]MetalMX wrote:
Greetings fellow T-Nation brothers. Just joined up with this site. I need some info on what cycle i should run for my first time. Im going to be competing in the future as well.

I plan on being a bodybuider this 10 years down the road and longer, hell for the rest of my life!

Have used clenbuterol before and at the moment am using T3 tapering up and down, using a max of 50mga day with extremely high protein diet, creatine, BCAA’s, Fish/Flax Oil to prevent catabolism.

Stats:

6"2
235lbs
16-18% BF
2 years training experience
Want to compete

Diet: High Protein, low-moderate carb (just sticking to oatmeal, essential fats (Flaxseed oil 2-3 Tbsp a day)

Goal: Cutting & adding a little muscle

Was thining of doing primobolan but its faked a lot and the effective dose will cost me way more than the test so decided not to. Was thinking of Var but again too expensive.

The only other oral i could do is Winny 25mg ED for 4 weeks at the beginning of the cycle thoughts?

Anyway…

Wk 1-10 Test Enanthate 500mg a week
(either 500mg once a week or 250mg mon and 250mg thur)

PCT Clomid though im not sure how much i’d need for my size?

I have a bit of nolva on hand lol 6 tablets in case of gyno during cycle, though i’d need more just in case but can’t afford it right now.

Was thinking of running an AI like letrozole to minimize bloat but again not enough money :frowning:

Pretty basic cycle im about to do as im not a rich guy so i cant afford much. What are peoples ideas on cheap effective cycles?

[/quote]

Advice: Wait until you have enough cash to properly stock yourself any problems that may arise. You will regret this greatly if you do not, and look back down the road and comment how stupid you were. As far as cycle, week 1-10 test E is commented by many a vet as being a great first cycle, I am currently in the middle of my first test E cycle and I am loving it. I split the dose up 2 injections per week @ 250mg per injection. I am running a’dex at .25mg EOD. I would suggest a test taper for pct along with nolva, p22’s thread is on this page, read it and become familiar. I would also run dbol or such for a kickstart, I wish I had as the test takes awhile to “kick” in.

Craig

#3

Thanks for the reply.

If any problems arise i could always go to my doctor and he would sort me out. It’s not like he’d let me get gyno. Armidex is great but damn pricey.

Do you know how bad the bloat with the Dbol’s really is without using an AI?

Ok so:

Test E Wk 1-10 500mg

And what would be a good pct protocol for myself with just clomid?

Do you think i should run winny with this?

P22’s thread where can i find that?

#4

[quote]MetalMX wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

If any problems arise i could always go to my doctor and he would sort me out. It’s not like he’d let me get gyno. Armidex is great but damn pricey.

Do you know how bad the bloat with the Dbol’s really is without using an AI?

Ok so:

Test E Wk 1-10 500mg

And what would be a good pct protocol for myself with just clomid?

Do you think i should run winny with this?

[/quote]

Maybe read my post again. I suggested a pct.

Craig

#5

Frankly, the test taper is a bit too complex to be the least bit appealing to a complete newbie.

I do agree, however, that you should be saving your money and taking advantage of that time to check up on previous posts and reoccurring questions/answers that arise here so that you can get a better understanding of the proper way to run a cycle.

#6

I prefer to just do a PCT with clomid rather than the test taper following my test e cycle in terms of the gains retained it seems the test taper is superior but this would also get my decent results no?

3 week clomid:

300mg on day 1
100mg for 10 days
50mg for 10 days

I also have Albuterol (Salbutamol) on hand and will use that for 2 weeks at 40mg a day to lower cortisol and help retain more gains.

#7

I think that you should wait and save your money to do a more complete cycle.

I mean, it is a useless risk to run AAS without the proper AI for “emergency”.

BTW here is my 2 cents:

  1. you should cut naturally at least to 15% before starting useing AAS
  2. you should not use T3 by now, it a dangerous compound and without the right AAS i think it do more damage than aids (cutting wise)
  3. i don’t know how old are you but your training age is too short to start using AAS. Hardly you have the experience to get complete advantage from AAS

However to answer your question:

  1. yes you can run winny for 4 weeks, but 50mg ED is the “minimum”.
    If you plan to use it for it’s SHBG lowering power remember that 2mg/kg is a “good” dose.
#8

I have low test and a bit of a hypothyroid. I want to get drastically bigger and leaner but i’m afraid that just wont be happening with low test levels and a hypothyroid. It’s also extremely difficult for me to drop fat while keeping muscle.

Ok if i added an AI which one would you recommend and the dose?

#9

I would have to agree with these guys that 2 yrs experience isn’t really enough time in the gym to be juicing…how old are you?

I guess the fact that you are 235lbs may be an argument against that though. you may have extreme genetic potential that would respond very well to juice…it was said by some that arnie started juicing at 15yrs so who I am to say it’s too early if you think you are ready.

personally i was still seeing natural gains up until about age 23 and then very minimal gains after that but I had been training about 8 years by then.

if your diet and training is already on point then gear may be the next step to seeing gains. you should make sure your diet and training are on though because they are the most important thing on cycle (more important than what gear you are running…it took me two cycles to figure that out…a cutting cycle or bulking cycle is only as good at what you do while on it).

if you are looking for a cycle that works to put on mass and is cheap 250mg 2x/w of test enth is a good place to start. If you want to minimize bloat and avoid estrogen problems run arimidex at 0.25mg EOD and have nolva on hand in case you do start seeing symptoms of the boob fairy. This is not something I would skip personally. if you don’t have the money then wait longer until you do. as for PCT it has been discussed on here at length and i have yet to figure out what works best for me so I can’t really comment. make sure you are eating a crap load of protein and train hard.

best of luck.

FG

#10

IMVHO in no way someone can be ready for AAS after 2years of training.
Too much think are still to be “learned”… how your body react to training, which is the better training for you. which kind of diet give you the better results, how long you can train hard, how much rest do you need… are you bloated by carbo, can you keep perfomance cutting calories etc etc etc

You can be a champion or a gifted fucking monster but you still need experience.

#11

MetalMX:
Do some serious research man.
You can’t ask which AI and which dose… Simply you have to do research.

About hypothiroidism and low test… if this is the problem dont play with AAS. Go to a doctor.

How old are you?

#12

Cheers FuriousGeorge. Good nutrition day in day out is my motto , training is good too 4 days a week chest/bi’s, back/tri’s, shoulders/calves, quads/hams/traps split.

My quads,hams,calves are damn big but my upperbody isnt as big where i’d like to improve. Yeah i do think i have good genetics, I did bulk to 240 plus but even if i clean bulk i put on way too much fat and very little muscle so i have cut down since then.

I also supplement protein, flax/fish oil, Vitamin C 3g a day, ZMA, Creatine, BCAA’s.

#13

Im choosing to use AAS no one is going to change my mind otherwise, its something i want to do. Natural potential is a myth.

I know Steroids are aids just like anything else in the sport the diet, training will determine the majority of the gains you make. Anyway i want to compete so theirs no question ill be cycling.

Btw im 19

#14

You might still choose to use no matter what, but you still might want to get checked out by a doctor first, like Cadav said. You don’t want your natural problems being worsened by abusing AAS- as you will probably end up doing, since you aren’t really following the ideas set out in front of you.

#15

“I have naturally low test”
+

“I have a bit of hypothyroidism”

=

The two biggest lies thrown around here constantly.

#16

[quote]MetalMX wrote:
Yeah i do think i have good genetics, I did bulk to 240 plus but even if i clean bulk i put on way too much fat and very little muscle
[/quote]

That doesn’t sound like good genetics to me… That sounds like getting fat.

Plus 235lbs at 6’2" is good but it’s by no means anything special at your bf%.

If you genuinely do have hypogonadism and hypothyroidism you might want to up your fats. I didn’t read in detail but it seems they might be a bit on the low side. I would have thought that hypogonadism would make recovery from AAS very tricky.

#17

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
MetalMX wrote:
Yeah i do think i have good genetics, I did bulk to 240 plus but even if i clean bulk i put on way too much fat and very little muscle

That doesn’t sound like good genetics to me… That sounds like getting fat.

Plus 235lbs at 6’2" is good but it’s by no means anything special at your bf%.

If you genuinely do have hypogonadism and hypothyroidism you might want to up your fats. I didn’t read in detail but it seems they might be a bit on the low side. I would have thought that hypogonadism would make recovery from AAS very tricky.

[/quote]

It may, as Contrl pointed out earlier, but Metal doesn’t want to listen.

#18

[quote]MetalMX wrote:
Yeah i do think i have good genetics, I did bulk to 240 plus but even if i clean bulk i put on way too much fat and very little muscle
[/quote]

Sorry man… but if you do a clean bulk and pack too much fat (related to LBM) the possibilities are 3:

  1. it was not a clean bulk (you need to improve nutritional knowledge)
  2. your training was not so good (you need to improve training knowledge)
  3. your genetics is not so good…
#19

[quote]MetalMX wrote:
Im choosing to use AAS no one is going to change my mind otherwise, its something i want to do. Natural potential is a myth.

I know Steroids are aids just like anything else in the sport the diet, training will determine the majority of the gains you make. Anyway i want to compete so theirs no question ill be cycling.

Btw im 19[/quote]

well you should not.
You have not the basic requisite to juice.

#20

Yeah i want advice thats why im here. Im in the middle of seeing an endocrinologist.

The hypogonadism and hypothyroidism is only possibility from the one blood test i had my TSH was 5.85 the norm being 1-5 and my testosterone was in the lowest normal range 12-38 normal mine was 13.

Maybe i should use less suppressive compounds something like winstrol depot or primobolan…