Polygamist Nabbed

[quote]TSuderman wrote:
Huh?! Which Bible did you read!?
[/quote]

The one where Moses is the result of an incestuous relationship: Exodus 6:20

The one where men often have two (or more) wives: Genesis 4:19, Gen 26:34, 28:9

The one where God kills Job’s children as part of a bet with Satan: Job 1:18-19

The one where King Solomon has 700 wives and 300 concubines. 1 Kings 11:1-3

…And on, and on, etc. If you’re a woman or a kid, the Old Testament is a bad place to be.

It’s a fascinating book, you should read it sometime.

[quote]rainjack wrote:

The guy wasn’t arrested for polygamy. He was arrested for sexual assault, or stautory rape.

Everyone wants to get on their “it’s okay to marry as many of whatever gets you off” soapbox when that is not even the issue. It could have been an athiest that got busted, or a Baptist preacher.

My point is it seems that no one even knows what the case3 is about, but instead decided this was a forum to talk about polygamy.

A bigger crime wqould be why it is only a misdemeanor in Cali to have kiddie pron on your computer. [/quote]

we were responding to steveos post…

Why he chose a religious nutcase as his posterboy will probably forever remain a mistery…

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Here are some serious - and unloaded, honestly - questions for those who would endorse legal recognition of polygamy, etc.
[/quote]

Just to be clear, I don’t endorse legal recognition of polygamy. I also don’t think it would be the end of the world.

I imagine the same way they would be resolved if a man simply impregnated women he hadn’t married.

He’d be able to claim the 60 kids as dependents anyway. If the wives meet the legal standard of a dependent, then yes, why shouldn’t he claim them?

The same amount would go to all the wives as would’ve gone to a single one. Want 20 wives? Pay for them

[quote]
5. How would insurance work for families?[/quote]

The same way insurance currently works for most companies. Companies pay up to a certain amount for insurance for family, and offer their employees a reduced rate to pay for additional insurance. If I were to have 10 kids with a single woman, my company subsidized insurance would cap out, and I’d have to pay additional money to provide health insurance for the children.

[quote]pookie wrote:
TSuderman wrote:
Huh?! Which Bible did you read!?

The one where Moses is the result of an incestuous relationship: Exodus 6:20
MARRYING YOUR AUNT BACK THEN WASN’T A BIG DEAL

The one where men often have two (or more) wives: Genesis 4:19, Gen 26:34, 28:9
PEOPLE DID NOT HAVE ANY LAWS ON MARRIAGE YET

The one where God kills Job’s children as part of a bet with Satan: Job 1:18-19
GOD DIDN’T KILL THEM, GOD IS SOVEREIGN, JOB WAS BLESSED EVEN MORE AT THE END, THIS BOOK IS A LIFE LESSON ON TRUST AND PERSEVERENCE.

The one where King Solomon has 700 wives and 300 concubines. 1 Kings 11:1-3
KINGS IN ALL CULTURES HAD SIMILAR ARRANGEMENTS, JUST LOOK AT SLICK WILLY

…And on, and on, etc. If you’re a woman or a kid, the Old Testament is a bad place to be. IF YOU WERE A SINNER IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, IT WAS A BAD PLACE TO BE…THANK GOD FOR SENDING JESUS, HE PAID FOR MY SINS.

It’s a fascinating book, you should read it sometime. MAKE SURE YOU READ IN THE RIGHT RELIGIOUS AND SOCIAL CONTEXT OF THE TIME.
[/quote]

[quote]pookie wrote:
TSuderman wrote:
Huh?! Which Bible did you read!?

The one where Moses is the result of an incestuous relationship: Exodus 6:20

The one where men often have two (or more) wives: Genesis 4:19, Gen 26:34, 28:9

The one where God kills Job’s children as part of a bet with Satan: Job 1:18-19

The one where King Solomon has 700 wives and 300 concubines. 1 Kings 11:1-3

…And on, and on, etc. If you’re a woman or a kid, the Old Testament is a bad place to be.

It’s a fascinating book, you should read it sometime.
[/quote]

pookie- EXODUS 6:20- And Amram took him Jochebed his father’s sisiter to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amran were an hundred and thirty and seven years.
Now it may be a bit odd to marry your nephew but, there is no mention at all of being forced into it. So we can set aside that example.
GENSIS 4:19- And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Ziliah.
And the other two verses are similar just naming the man and his wives. No mention of force, rape or molestation.
Now, I may be an adult, but I am still my dad’s child so lets look at JOB. JOB 1:4-And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
So what we have here are adults who have their own houses, not children.
Now lets look at King Solomon. 1 KINGS 11:1-3 But king Solomon LOVED many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonnians and Hittites; 2 Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in LOVE. 3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.(emphasis mine)
Again no mention of force at all. It says he loved them. The wealthiest man of his time(maybe ever?) had many consenting wives. I think Bill Gates could find a thousand consenting wives with ease.
Yes, the Bible is fascinating.

Polygamy is one thing, screwing with minors is another - just want to make that clear that I’m not defending what this guy was doing with children. That’s obviously something to be arrested for.

[quote]jlesk68 wrote:
MAKE SURE YOU READ IN THE RIGHT RELIGIOUS AND SOCIAL CONTEXT OF THE TIME.
[/quote]

Either it’s the inspired word of God telling us how to live our lives, or it isn’t. Even if you believe in progressive revelation, simply deciding that we’re too advanced to believe in the Bible as written does not constitute divine revelation.

The Bible does not claim to be true only for a set epoch. It claims to be true for all time. That is how it should be read.

[quote]TSuderman wrote:
pookie- EXODUS 6:20- And Amram took him Jochebed his father’s sisiter to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amran were an hundred and thirty and seven years.
Now it may be a bit odd to marry your nephew but, there is no mention at all of being forced into it. So we can set aside that example.
GENSIS 4:19- And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Ziliah.
And the other two verses are similar just naming the man and his wives. No mention of force, rape or molestation.
Now, I may be an adult, but I am still my dad’s child so lets look at JOB. JOB 1:4-And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
So what we have here are adults who have their own houses, not children.
Now lets look at King Solomon. 1 KINGS 11:1-3 But king Solomon LOVED many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonnians and Hittites; 2 Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in LOVE. 3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.(emphasis mine)
Again no mention of force at all. It says he loved them. The wealthiest man of his time(maybe ever?) had many consenting wives. I think Bill Gates could find a thousand consenting wives with ease.
Yes, the Bible is fascinating.
[/quote]

Could you redo that with paragraphs of some kind? Your comments are all mixed up in the verses, and it’s really hard to pick out the modern rubbish from the ancient one.

[quote]pookie wrote:
TSuderman wrote:
pookie- EXODUS 6:20- And Amram took him Jochebed his father’s sisiter to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amran were an hundred and thirty and seven years.
Now it may be a bit odd to marry your nephew but, there is no mention at all of being forced into it. So we can set aside that example.
GENSIS 4:19- And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Ziliah.
And the other two verses are similar just naming the man and his wives. No mention of force, rape or molestation.
Now, I may be an adult, but I am still my dad’s child so lets look at JOB. JOB 1:4-And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
So what we have here are adults who have their own houses, not children.
Now lets look at King Solomon. 1 KINGS 11:1-3 But king Solomon LOVED many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonnians and Hittites; 2 Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in LOVE. 3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.(emphasis mine)
Again no mention of force at all. It says he loved them. The wealthiest man of his time(maybe ever?) had many consenting wives. I think Bill Gates could find a thousand consenting wives with ease.
Yes, the Bible is fascinating.

Could you redo that with paragraphs of some kind? Your comments are all mixed up in the verses, and it’s really hard to pick out the modern rubbish from the ancient one.
[/quote]

Sorry bout’ that. I used another format and transfered it over and it all got squashed. But since what I say is rubbish I’ll just leave it for now. If anyone is truly interested they will look up the verses for themselves. Christ be with you(And no, I don’t mean it as an irritation to you).

I don’t expect steveo, or anybody like him, to be a giant in the ethical department. So let’s keep it strictly legal.

Gay sex isn’t illegal.

Sex with minors is.

I rest my case.

[quote]TSuderman wrote:
Sorry bout’ that. I used another format and transfered it over and it all got squashed. But since what I say is rubbish I’ll just leave it for now. If anyone is truly interested they will look up the verses for themselves. Christ be with you(And no, I don’t mean it as an irritation to you).[/quote]

Don’t be so touchy.

It does give me hope that you’re pissed because I called your comments “rubbish” (actually, I don’t know, I haven’t read them) but relatively ok with my calling parts of the Bible the same.

[quote]pookie wrote:
TSuderman wrote:
Sorry bout’ that. I used another format and transfered it over and it all got squashed. But since what I say is rubbish I’ll just leave it for now. If anyone is truly interested they will look up the verses for themselves. Christ be with you(And no, I don’t mean it as an irritation to you).

Don’t be so touchy.

It does give me hope that you’re pissed because I called your comments “rubbish” (actually, I don’t know, I haven’t read them) but relatively ok with my calling parts of the Bible the same.
[/quote]

I can’t defend God or his word. He will defend it. He is not mocked.

[quote]forlife wrote:
TSuderman wrote:
Steveo- Where in the Bible does it condemn polygamy?(Man with multiple wives)

The fundies usually get silent when asked this question. They love to talk about “preserving traditional marriage”, but ignore the fact that polygamy was practiced regularly in the bible, by such esteemed prophets as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob :)[/quote]

Where did someone say that polygamy was against the Bible?

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
I don’t expect steveo, or anybody like him, to be a giant in the ethical department. So let’s keep it strictly legal.

Gay sex isn’t illegal.

Sex with minors is.

I rest my case.[/quote]

Anal sex is illegal in many US States

Oral sex is illegal in many US States

I re-rest your case!

OK pookie,since you will not read it unless it is divided-

EXODUS 6:20- “And Amram took him Jochebed his father’s sisiter to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amran were an hundred and thirty and seven years.”

Now it may be a bit odd to marry your nephew but, there is no mention at all of being forced into it. So we can set aside that example. 

Lets look at GENESIS 4:19- "And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Ziliah." 

And the other two verses are similar just naming the man and his wives. No mention of force, rape or molestation. 

 Now, I may be an adult, but I am still my dad's child so lets look at JOB. JOB 1:4-"And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them."

So what we have here are adults who have their own houses, not children.

Now lets look at King Solomon. 1 KINGS 11:1-3 "But king Solomon LOVED many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonnians and Hittites; 2 Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in LOVE. 3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart."(emphasis mine) 

Again no mention of force at all. It says he loved them. The wealthiest man of his time(maybe ever?) had many consenting wives. I think Bill Gates could find a thousand consenting wives with ease.

Yes, the Bible is fascinating.  And again I can only defend my words if you find them to be rubbish. If you think God's word is rubbish you can take it up with him.

Steveo,

now I am actually really interested in your take on polygamy and since you started that thread…

You could also comment on polyandry which io not mentioned in the bible but not explicitly forbidden either and since women have reached a point where they have the earning power of men (well, not quite, but anyway) would that be a possibility?

[quote]TSuderman wrote:
Now it may be a bit odd to marry your nephew but, there is no mention at all of being forced into it. So we can set aside that example.

Again no mention of force at all. It says he loved them. The wealthiest man of his time(maybe ever?) had many consenting wives. I think Bill Gates could find a thousand consenting wives with ease. [/quote]

Bill Gates is richer than Solomon, even if you adjust for inflation.

So my examples of incest, polygamy and cruelty towards children don’t bother you? Until it’s rape and molestation, anything goes? Ok.

[i]Deut 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

Deut 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.[/i]

So if you encounter a virgin and rape her, you can pay her dad 50 shekels and keep her as your wife.

That God character is really hard on crime! That 50 shekels probably deterred every rapist in the land.

Let’s get back to that Job guy:


Job 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Job would rather give his two virgin daughters to a mob, rather than two angels that came to visit.

The best part is that Job is later called, by Peter (Peter 2:7-8), a “just” and “righteous” man.

So God considers a man who’d deliver his daughters to be raped by a mob to be “just” AND “righteous?”

Then there’s Deuteronomy 22:23-25 where, if a rape occurs in a city, both the rapist and rape victim are to be put to death, the woman for not having cried out loud enough. If the rape happens in the country, the woman gets to live, because, presumably, there was no one to hear her cries, even if they were loud enough.

Truly, an all-loving God is a sight to behold.

2 Samuel 12:11 - Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

As a punishment to David, God has his wives raped by his neighbors while David watches.

Way to go, God! That’ll teach him!

Do you still wonder “which Bible” was used by the molester mentioned in the top article when he said he wanted to set up “a parallel society in which women and children are molested and treated like in biblical times?”

[quote]orion wrote:
You could also comment on polyandry which io not mentioned in the bible[/quote]

It’s not mentioned in the Bible, because women are basically property. Objects. It would make as much sense to talk about polyandry as it would to mention an ass that owned multiple men.

No gay pun intended.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I don’t hate gays or polygamists. In fact, I don’t give a shit what they do- its got no bearing on my life at all.

It’s only the self-righteous assholes who want to get inside everyone’s bedroom that give two shits about any of this…man, what happened to “conservative” meaning “keep government out”? The Jesus Freaks have truly taken over the right…
[/quote]

My sentiments exactly.

[quote]orion wrote:
Steveo,

now I am actually really interested in your take on polygamy and since you started that thread…[/quote]

My take on polygamy rests upon Jesus’ statements in Matthew 19:4-8: [b]

"Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 

Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so."[/b]

God’s intention for marriage is simple:

One man
One woman
For life

All other possibilities come out of our sinful hearts that wish to do what we wish to do. Adam and Eve were the example that God set – we have choices, but the Bible is clear and clearly against any and all deviation from Jesus’ position. [quote]

You could also comment on polyandry which io not mentioned in the bible but not explicitly forbidden either and since women have reached a point where they have the earning power of men (well, not quite, but anyway) would that be a possibility?
[/quote]

Same answer for this. However, my intent for this thread was simply to point out, however, that why is this deviant behavior being punished, when we have all sorts of kooks running around demanding Sodomite (oh, excuse me “gay”) marriage?

I mean, what if a court somewhere like Massachusettes rules that you cannot discriminate against the polygamists, since they have already ruled in favor of the Sodomites? Then what? Then what is the next deviant behavior in this realm that we will have to allow? This is the slippery slope that I have been talking about. Where will it end?

Deviant behavior is deviant behavior – gay, polygamy, or otherwise…