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Poloquin style for Bulking

I was wondering how the numbers change for a bulking diet. I was thinking about taking the poloquin route to keep the bdf low while gaining some mass.

Dieting numbers

2g of protien per pound.
.9g of carbs per pound.
1g of fat per pound.

If memory serves, Poliquin recommends increasing your calories by 50% every 5 days, with all the extra calories coming from carbs. How he calculates calories is based on the numbers that you outline above, used for dieting, I believe.

Just curious, Ryan, to where you got those numbers. This was discussed in depth last summer. The bulking protocol goes something like:
2g protein/pound
1g carbohydrate/pound
.9g fat/pound

And on the carb-up days:
1g protein/pound
2.35g carbohydrate/pound
.65g fat/pound

Hope this helps…

Just curious…should those numbers be based truly on total weight or should it be based off of lean body weight?

That’s per pound of LBM.

Really weird, on the carb up days the caloric total is less than the noncarb-up caloric recommendation. I loved bulking, now that Im cutting and getting ready for a FIGHT, I only and constantly wish I was always full, like when bulking. The numbers given here are way below the numbers I was using during my bulk phase though?(massive eating).
My numbers:
Noncarb-up - 3000
carb-up - 2800
Massive eating - 4200


Da Boxer

ignore double post

I’ve never seen a bulking diet with such a low overall calorie consumption.

I just double-checked my notes and realized my previous post was in error. The numbers given are per pound of bodyweight. Sorry 'bout that.

I just wanted to add that while I’m definitely not an expert on this, I do know that the breakdown of the “diet” is roughly 40% protein, 40% fat, and 20% carbs.

Boxer, Chris, et al…

I used this diet last fall (with similar macro breakdowns). While I gained quite a bit of muscle, I also gained a lot of fat.

The main problem with these recommendations as is (which really aren’t that accurate) is that the caloric intake is too high on training days. With this many calories throughout the week, you minimize the anabolic effect of the carbup (which should be drastically higher in calories). I’m currently using an Alessi approach with great success. It’s very important to keep carbs in the 75-100g range; this number includes your post-training liquid meal. The rest of the carbs on those days should come from low calorie vegetables. You’ll find that there will be less spillover to fat on the carbup days simply because your glycogen stores aren’t so close to “topped-off.”

On your carbups, up to 70% of your intake can be CHO. Keep fat low. I prefer to keep my last two meals of the day on my carbups to P&F, where I take in all my fish oil.

If bulking is the goal, increase carbup frequency. If you’re cutting, stick with every 6-7 days. It’s highly individual, so you need to experiment with what works.

Eric : “I’m currently using an Alessi approach with great success.”

Damn, now you got us interested! And you know that here on the T-mag forum we demand a quantitative answer. So please share with us all the juicy stats :slight_smile:

Suffice it to say that it’s taken a lot of trial and error to get to the point where I can look at my carbup days as opporunities to get in a ton of calories and refill glycogen stores. In contrast, before, I was always approaching carbups very tentatively out of fear of fat gain. However, when you keep the calories low on training days (15-16g/lb.), it makes it a lot easier to take your calories through the roof without porking up. Carbup frequency and amount is highly individual, so you’ll have to experiment with finding the right mix.

Hey Eric, I have another Q for you. In Don Alessi’s ID column #209 he recommends to a reader wanting to add mass to consume, on some days, 50g CHO 50g Fat and 1000-1500cal above mainentance! If the other 2 macros are limited to 50g and I’m suppose to each such a surplus in calories, then is he suggesting for someone to eat approx 700g of protein?!?!?!

Thanks if you could clarify that up for me.


Where did you get the 1000-1500 calories above maintenance figure? It doesn’t appear anywhere in that Iron Dog column, nor have I ever heard Don mention it in my correspondence with him.

I got that number from DA “Ripped in 8 Weeks” Q&A. He basically tells the the guy who asked to question to go on a cutting cycle for 2 weeks, then switch to a bulking cycle for 2 weeks (rinse and repeat).
On certain days of the bulking phase he recommends the following:

Weeks 3, 4, 7 and 8 (Meltdown II, Death Circuit Weeks)

Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays

Protein ? Red meat only, fish, turkey, chicken, egg whites, cottage cheese, Grow!

Carbs ? 50 grams or less

Smart fats ? 50 grams from olive, canola, fish, or flax

Calories ? 1000 more than baseline during weeks 3 and 4 only, 1500 more than original baseline during weeks 7 and 8

Again, from my understanding, that could only mean he’s recommending approx 700grams of protein on those days.
Let me know if you’ve interpretted it differently.


Sorry it’s taken long to get back to you guys.

I was planning on following the poloquin guidlines, with a carb up on tuesday, and a cheat meal, or carb up on saturday.

Boxer Al, Alessi, and Poloquin’s calorie recommendations are always significantly less then Berardi’s.

Eating 170-180g of fat is what scares me, I think eating 120g of fat and maybe adding some oats to the carbs might help me. I’ll have to give it a shot though.


Back to the Alessi, Poloquin Vs Berardi.

I think Berardi type numbers work better for naturally lean guys. And guys that can handle allot of carbs. And correct me if im wrong, Boxer your one of these guys.

On the other hand, Alessi and poloquin type recomendations are for guys that aren’t as lean, and can’t handle the cabrs as well.

I’m planning on doing a 2 week LBM gain within the next 2 weeks. I thought at first to try huge carbs berardi style, but i’m thinkning it over to take a more moderate approach, ie 250g of carbs.


Yes, your right, I do have a fast metabolism, I recently stopped bulking about three weeks ago and have already dropped a few fat pounds without even trying. The hard part is truly putting on weight, even with frequent cheats. Trust me, Im thankful for this and very appreciative. I love fajitas. The great thing is that I don’t crave much, I just eat whatever Im in the mood for. Usually oatmeal with bananas and vanilla grow, or even pasta alfredo w/chicken. I get full fast so I never really do much harm as my “cheat meals” are hardly worth mentioning in the cheat meal threads.

As for the idea behind Poliquins requirements, Im in total agreement with you. It’s just if your gonna bulk? enjoy it, Carbohydrates are mandatory for bulking fast. Realize that I said for bulking FAST. If not much LBM is needed and time is of no issue then with some tricks and schemes definately can be done with little carbohydrates to minimize fat gain if any at that.

Da Boxer

sorry i’m killing this thread.

But to Eric,

If your saying the carb up day isn’t enough cals to get an anabolic effect. What would you think to try the lower cal carbup, 3x’s a week?


So are you suggesting for my fast Bulk (2weeks) high carbs is neccesary. Keep in mind i will be training renegade style with bjj\MMA.

Vs a longer approach where carbs can be kept lower with carbups every couple of days. This is for Mid augest with OVT.