Hey everyone, im an Olympic Weightlifter trying to take my nutrition to the next level. I currently follow a low carb, high fat, high protein diet through out the entire day except for right before and right after trainings.
I train 6-9 times per-week and an getting stronger. However i find that i still have some extra fat on my pecs, and belly button area and am just in general not as lean as I would like. Also all other things being equal a 210lbs guy with 10% bodyfat is going to be stronger then the same 210lbs guy at 15% simply from having more muscle on their frame.
I have looked in to getting a Bio-signature done which really isnt THAT expensive, but the price of some of the supplements kinda bothers me if i cant be 99% confident that ill get the results that im looking for.
In short, has anyone here had their bio-signatures done and followed the recommendations? And if so, what kind of results did you see?
[quote]tork94 wrote:
Also all other things being equal a 210lbs guy with 10% bodyfat is going to be stronger then the same 210lbs guy at 15% simply from having more muscle on their frame.
[/quote]
That’s true, but what’s your bodyfat?
I’m skeptical of biosig in general, but I also suspect it wouldn’t be very useful unless you’re pretty lean already, and if it throws out “interesting” results, rather than fairly even fat distribution.
[quote]tork94 wrote:
Also all other things being equal a 210lbs guy with 10% bodyfat is going to be stronger then the same 210lbs guy at 15% simply from having more muscle on their frame.
[/quote]
That’s true, but what’s your bodyfat?
I’m skeptical of biosig in general, but I also suspect it wouldn’t be very useful unless you’re pretty lean already, and if it throws out “interesting” results, rather than fairly even fat distribution.[/quote]
Last time I had my body-fat professionally tested i was 15.4%, I have cut some carbs and increased protein and trained very hard sense that test and i look a bit leaner, so I would guess some where in the 14% range. My love-handles, legs, arms and back look like what i would expect someone who is 210 and 13-15% body fat, but my umbilical region and pecs look sloppy compared to everything else. Which if im not mistaken often means poor management of stress, and test-estrogen conversion issues.
[quote]tork94 wrote:
Last time I had my body-fat professionally tested i was 15.4%, I have cut some carbs and increased protein and trained very hard sense that test and i look a bit leaner, so I would guess some where in the 14% range[/quote] Since you’ve lost fat (and if your strength has remained good) then keep doing what you’re doing.
Don’t pay some ‘professional’ to pinch you in the butt and prescribe a shitload of herbs and antioxidants…
[quote]tork94 wrote:
Last time I had my body-fat professionally tested i was 15.4%, I have cut some carbs and increased protein and trained very hard sense that test and i look a bit leaner, so I would guess some where in the 14% range[/quote] Since you’ve lost fat (and if your strength has remained good) then keep doing what you’re doing.
Don’t pay some ‘professional’ to pinch you in the butt and prescribe a shitload of herbs and antioxidants…
[/quote]
ya im starting to think that way to, over the last few months my weight has remained almost exactly the same, but strength is going up steady, and i look leaner.
So ill most likely just keep doing what im doing, if the odd fat deposites continue to get more obvious then maybe ill invest in the biosignature.
I think I would agree with tolismann, not that I have any doubt in Poliquin’s Biosignature but for most peoples purposes it’s probably not necessary or ideal. If you’re at 14-15% ish you’ll have no problem stripping that off with a simple reduction in carbs. People respond to that differently, especially when you’re training for o-lifts where #'s are the fixation and if you’re missing your lifts it’s gonna be a lot more noticeable then having a set of 10 on a regular exercise feel a little heavier. I would probably suggest something like the anabolic diet. I think that diet would get you great results with a reduction in FAT not simply weight. I wouldn’t be to concerned about scale weight, using the mirror is the best tool. Anabolic diet basically allows you to eat as much meat and cheese as you want with veggies = low carb weeks with high carb weekends. I did the first 2 weeks or 12 days low-carb because you want to be sure to create that metabolic shift so that your body will use fat as it’s fuel source. Research shows it can be done in as little as 5 but in the book “Anabolic Solution” 7-12 is recommended. After the first 12 days he allows a carb up and says you can have one every weekend, however I would not plan for it because that way you’ll be sure to endulge but rather just carb up when feeling depleted, flat and weak.
Biosignature will help you find out what hormonal inbalances you have…By optimising this, you will optimise your HEALTH(priority) and the side effects of course, been muscle growth, bodyfat reduction, increased energy levels, improved sleep, strength gained etc etc. It would not matter if you are an O lifter, bodybuilder or 50year woman…it will assist anyone and everyone. So, unfortunately it is NOT as simple as, just follow this diet etc…It is INDIVIDUAL and biosig will certainly help tell YOU what YOU may need.
Having said all of the above, it is also very dependent on how good a practitioner you go to…Some are “Biosiganture Practitioners” due to doing the course, but clueless as to how to interpret clients results and what to prescribe…much like any industry/profession I suppose:)
I had the bio-sig done back in December 09. I knew I had a high bf% at the time but was curious how it worked. The practitioner knew a lot and was going to give me a discount on the Poliquin supplements, but the monthly cost was still too high for my pocket at the time.
To make a long story short, I ate green vegetables, fish oil, cut down on the bad carbs, used nutrient timing when I lifted, and dropped down to 10% while keeping my strength. Didn’t need bio-sig to get that done.
I think if you want to get down to single digits, bio-sig would be great. But if you’re eating crappy like I was and not lifting enough, you’d be better off fixing that first.
Thanks for all the advice guys, I do believe that i follow quite a good diet, i VERY rairly cheet and have been following a something close to the anabolic diet for a few months (almost no carbs outside of pre/post workouts) with lots of veggies. I am also very consistant with my trainings, i have not missed a scheduled training session in almost 2 years except for 7-10 days completely off during every summer or if im very sick.
I think i will get it done as its not all that expensive and depending on the information i get out of it ill eather buy the supplements if i can aford them, if not ill hopefully be able to get some ideas on how to change my diet for the better and eleminate foods that might be causing some of the poor readings on the biosignature.
Thanks again.
Ill post again after my results are in and probably again in 6-8 weeks.
A friend of mine is a Level 1 BioSignature Practitioner and I first took my skin fold profile with him this past summer. I’ve PERSONALLY seen an 8% drop in body fat in about 12 weeks with very little supplementation—and I compromised no muscle or strength gains. In fact, I increased my lean mass by ~5 lbs and over that time span while continuously hitting PRs in the gym.
The initial assessment is worth it. I don’t use Poliquin Supplements because I don’t have the money for it but I have found excellent results simply increasing certain nutrient deficiencies. For instance, the accumulation of fat on your pec site (at least relative to your triceps) is an indication of poor testosterone levels and could very well be due to a zinc deficiency which I have found to be quite common (as well as quite easy to fix).
Additionally, the accumulation of fat around your mid-section is an indication of high cortisol and potentially poor carbohydrate maintenance.
I will tell you this: one of the FIRST recomendations a BioSig Practitioner will tell you to do is to lose the Pre-Worjout carbs. They increase the release of seratonin (the feel-good hormone) into the blood stream and will lead to poor neurotransmitter function and thus decreased perfomance (especially in a sport such as the O-lifts).
It is also possible that your diet is TOO clean if that makes any sense. If you have been on the Anabolic Diet for a couple months with minimal cheats then your progress could very well be stalled by a lack of carbohydrates. Carbs are not inherently bad… you just have to earn them. And by the sounds of it you work your ass off in the gym, and train consistently. So your body is going to need a carb-up every now and then outside the post-workout window to replenish glycogen stores.
This of course should be a controlled carb-up for a competitive athlete. Most of Poliquin’s athletes are on a 4:1 Low:High Carb cycle. But these are athletes already at or under 10% BF. His suggestion is to use a refeed MEAL every 5 days until you’ve reached ~10% at which point an entire day is warranted.
Overall, BioSig will be worth it and the initial consult itself should probably get you to sub-10%. Then you can dial in your supplementation to get super lean.
t.bruce: good post. Any other tips on that T to E ratio and changing it according to your friend? Usually even if you change one you change the other (my basic understanding) so If you boosted T then E would follow (prissy little bitch that it is).
Also IYO whats carb maintance? 1) no pre wod carbs 2) post wod carbs only (im guessing limited to no carbs throughout the day and then every 4th/5th day more carbs?
Depending on fat accumilation around midsection (love handle vs lower belly fat) usually youre talking a difference between cortisol (life and work out stress and/or shitty sleep) vs insulin management issues.
I myself am trying to get down to low single digits (probably at 9 0r 10% now) and this shits getting scientific now.
[quote]t.bruce wrote:
A friend of mine is a Level 1 BioSignature Practitioner and I first took my skin fold profile with him this past summer. I’ve PERSONALLY seen an 8% drop in body fat in about 12 weeks with very little supplementation—and I compromised no muscle or strength gains. In fact, I increased my lean mass by ~5 lbs and over that time span while continuously hitting PRs in the gym.
The initial assessment is worth it. I don’t use Poliquin Supplements because I don’t have the money for it but I have found excellent results simply increasing certain nutrient deficiencies. For instance, the accumulation of fat on your pec site (at least relative to your triceps) is an indication of poor testosterone levels and could very well be due to a zinc deficiency which I have found to be quite common (as well as quite easy to fix).
Additionally, the accumulation of fat around your mid-section is an indication of high cortisol and potentially poor carbohydrate maintenance.
I will tell you this: one of the FIRST recomendations a BioSig Practitioner will tell you to do is to lose the Pre-Worjout carbs. They increase the release of seratonin (the feel-good hormone) into the blood stream and will lead to poor neurotransmitter function and thus decreased perfomance (especially in a sport such as the O-lifts).
It is also possible that your diet is TOO clean if that makes any sense. If you have been on the Anabolic Diet for a couple months with minimal cheats then your progress could very well be stalled by a lack of carbohydrates. Carbs are not inherently bad… you just have to earn them. And by the sounds of it you work your ass off in the gym, and train consistently. So your body is going to need a carb-up every now and then outside the post-workout window to replenish glycogen stores.
This of course should be a controlled carb-up for a competitive athlete. Most of Poliquin’s athletes are on a 4:1 Low:High Carb cycle. But these are athletes already at or under 10% BF. His suggestion is to use a refeed MEAL every 5 days until you’ve reached ~10% at which point an entire day is warranted.
Overall, BioSig will be worth it and the initial consult itself should probably get you to sub-10%. Then you can dial in your supplementation to get super lean. [/quote]
thanks a lot for sharing your experience with me, i have booked an appointment for Wednesday this week and will share what i learn. I have a Competition this weekend so ill start making the changes suggested by the practitioner immediately after. The national championships are just over 7 weeks away and i should think that would be enough time to gauge at least some progress
hey guys, i got the bio-sig done today. It was a very interesting but positive experience that took a little under an hour. I don’t have the results yet as he needs to enter them in to the software and email the numbers in spread sheet form to me after, but he explained what each fold meant and which ones were my problem zones (supra iliac for insulin, the hamstring for environmental estrogen and umbilical for stress).
he got me to write out all my supplements and give a basic outline of when and what i eat on a typical day.
t.bruce was right as he suggested that I eliminate the pre-workout carbs and even lower my post-workout carbs by about 30%.
He then gave me a zinc test which indicated that I am zinc deficient and that is robing a bit of my testosterone. After this he gave me some HCL caps to test my HCL levels with my next high-protein meal.
I was happy and impressed that he didn’t automatically try to unload a ton of supplements on me, but basically said that switching my udos oil to a high-quality fish oil (which i could buy from him or any where else)would be helpful in improving insulin sensitivity. Really the only supplements he suggested right away were to switch my ZMA to the poliquin brand on zinc and magnesium and depending on my home test with the HCL, possibly adding a HCL supplement.
So overall it was a very positive experience and I learned a lot in just 1 hour and if I want to add these supplements it shouldnt cost me more then $100 a month (some of that will come from the savings from not spending as much on carbs and droping my current ZMA supplement.
he had a few more tips but the ones above were the major ones.
We talked goals and he suggested that if i committed to the changes and continued to train hard, with an increase in test from the zinc and possibly much improved digestion from the HCL, that loosing 6-7lbs of fat and gaining about 5lbs of muscle at the same time would be possible with-in the next 8 weeks.
ill be going back for a follow up visit in about 2 weeks.
yes im quite enthusiastic about it and will defiantly keep you guys in the loop.
I mean i don’t know my fat% just yet as i haven’t received it, but I guess im around 15%. So if i get the exact results that we are aiming for (5lbs muscle and to loose 7lbs fat) I would go from 211 and 15% body fat to 209 with 11.8% body fat in only 2 months.
I would pay a shit load of money for those kinds results and it doesn’t look like my supplement budget will increase by all that much.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Not to be rude man but what was the cost of your sig?
what cuts are you gona make in your diet? Do you think you will be able to train as is and compete with the 30% removal of carbs?
Thanks[/quote]
I payed $60 for the initial consultation, which as far as im concerned is VERY cheep for almost an hours worth of work.
I will be cutting out all the grains from my diet (turkey sandwich before training was pretty typical) other then that it seemed like my diet was lacking variety and I will be rotating proteins a bit more and adding a lot of different vegetables. Other then that I havnt given him my 3 day food log yet so im sure something else will change a little.
As far as taking some of the carbs out and still being able to train 100%, well im not really sure about that, I compete at the Western Canadian Championships this Saturday so I will NOT be changing my diet until after then. Over the last 12-18 months i have been slowly removing carbs and have found that my training never really suffered for very long at all, and after a few weeks at the new carb intake i always trained just fine. Because of this I will stay on the very low carb plan suggested to me for at least 3 weeks after the Western championships and if i feel like shit and cant train hard then ill have to think about adding carbs as National Championships are only 7 weeks after westerns.
[quote]loosing 6-7lbs of fat and gaining about 5lbs of muscle at the same time would be possible with-in the next 8 weeks.
[/quote]
Reality check. That would have you gaining as much muscle as on a typical bulk while losing as much fat as on a typical diet. AT THE SAME TIME.
[quote]loosing 6-7lbs of fat and gaining about 5lbs of muscle at the same time would be possible with-in the next 8 weeks.
[/quote]
Reality check. That would have you gaining as much muscle as on a typical bulk while losing as much fat as on a typical diet. AT THE SAME TIME.
What was the zinc test?[/quote]
that’s true, which is why I put that I thought it was crazy and getting even half those results would be phenomenal. Im going to be realistic in this and NOT expect something miraculous, but I have an open mind and will give it my best shot over the next 8 weeks so I can at least test it out for myself.
The Zinc test was basically swishing a zinc solution around in your mouth and then swallowing it. If you immediately taste something kinda metallic they your zinc levels are likely fine, but if their is a delay in the taste or you don’t taste anything at all then you are zinc deficient. I had a delay of a few seconds before i began to taste anything, at first it just tasted like unfiltered water to me.