T Nation

Police Shoot to Death Man Swinging Crowbar



It was a bit difficult to see what was going on what with all that rain on the window (couldn't those dopes have opened the window first?).

But it didn't appear that the suspect posed an immediate threat that warranted multiple fatal shots.


that was awesome.


Good for them.


That was textbook. They tried to Taser him (he was wearing too much clothing for an effective shock), and he was shot when he attempted to attack the officer with a deadly weapon. The guy attacked right after the cop holstered his pistol. Thank God for backup.


I can't fault the cop for opening fire.

However I would think a well trained police officer would have a better grasp of the situation. Did he really need to unload 5 shots point blank to the chest?

I counted 10 shots total


Who makes you an expert? It's fucking war on the streets, bro. You Canadians just don't know.


Agreed. It's never a good idea to get that close to someone who looks pissed and has a crowbar, baseball bat, etc. Most people severely underestimate how quickly they can get seriously hurt or killed by a person with a weapon of that density and length. If he'd have thrown the bar instead of pretending like he was going to hit the cop, there is no way the cop could have moved out of the way. Sure, the other cops would have gunned the guy down, but not before their co-worker got blasted by a deadly weapon.


At that point I don't think he was trying to get him to comply. You shoot a guy to kill him not to subdue him.


For real?? It's not like they don't have a hundred other options to subdue him.... Wait, the cop had fear for his life when he shot, instinctual reaction and all that shit, right.. oh well smh


I think he did well considering he was shooting with one hand and holding back a German Shepard. If he was using a 9mm, it could have taken that many shots to effectively stop the guy cold. You don't shoot, assess the effects, and repeat as necessary. You shoot until that guy hits the ground. Handguns aren't as powerful as the movies portray.


I'm asking because I'm not up on police tactics. But why not release the dog to subdue him? Are dogs not used in that capacity?


I think most people could take a working dog with a crowbar in hand. Don't get me wrong they're awesome dogs but it's still just a dog vs. a large metal object.


The dog in this situation would have been useful if the guy began running away. If they would have released the K9 on him, the officers would still have to get hands on with the suspect because the dog isn't trained to disarm people. The guy went from a form of resisting to attacking in less than a second. There really wasn't a window of opportunity for a less lethal resolution. The guy with the crowbar got the drop on the officer with the Taser, and his partner had to step in.


Fair enough and that makes sense. I would imagine that most people would panic when a dog is attacking them especially at such close range. I'm not sure he would have had time to react. But it's an asset and I guess you don't put assets in danger.

That's definitely a tough shot to take though. One handed while being pulled somewhat off balance. I'm not sure I could have made that shot.


Absolutely. I don't know how many times we have to have this same discussion: when a cop fires his weapon, it's to kill. There is no in between and it's asinine to question how many shots were necessary when you know this.


I just thought this was pertinent.


There's a vid floating around of a guy getting robbed for a bag of dope. The robbers shoot him point blank in the head about 3 times and the guy keeps fighting. Eventually the magazine is empty, the robbers have the dope, and the guy is lying there dying but still alive.

Somebody should find it and post it.


I am not a cop and never have been. I know a few very well, one of which had a lot of firearm training in the Marines, and this is basically what they told me:

Most cops are not well trained with firearms because they don't shoot enough and when they do shoot it's often simply to qualify (once or twice a year). Many departments don't have much money to spend on ammunition for training. Obviously there are exceptions, such as those who did a lot of firearm training in the military and some SWAT personnel. Cops are well trained drivers, certainly not Richard Petty in his prime caliber, but much better than the average person.

I can tell you from experience that those with a combat MOS in the Army do A LOT of firearm training and I don't recall ever having a shortage of ammunition to shoot for training purposes. On the other hand, many with a non-combat MOS talked as if they were lucky if they got to a range two days a year, and they usually didn't get to shoot at moving targets or shoot at night, and they never get to train in an urban environment.

I strayed a little from the topic. Oh well.


Good post.