Police Brutality

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
41

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Sloth wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Well, I don’t do any drugs, so that might give me a different outlook.

But even so, in general, if we were looking at stats and numbers, I’m sure violent crimes are more likely to be carried out by my supposedly angelic fellow private citizen.

Is it a crime to stop someone and badger them?

Depends on if the badger has been defanged and declawed. What an odd question.

Your angelic fellow private citizens will not stop you and badger you, the cops will. They can do it because it is not against the law.

I started a thread awhile back that I labeled Cops. For some reason the moderators changed it to An Episode of Cops. Any how, I stated that all you had to do is watch one episode of Cops and you would see that most Cops are out harassing people all in the name of ? The War On Drugs ?
If we would take away the war on drugs we could employ a few strong, kind people that would go catch bad people .

[/quote]

My angelic fellow citizens are more likely to commit a crime against me, period. They’re also more likely to stand around hoping somebody else will be the one to intervene if I, or a loved one, is the victim of a violent attack.

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[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
If we would take away the war on drugs we could employ a few strong, kind people that would go catch bad people.

In fact, imagine that the majority of these people could be employed in the private sector by insurance agencies – especially, for property related crimes.[/quote]

You may be right

44

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Yes imagine a world with no crime.[/quote]

No war on Drugs

45

[quote]Sloth wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Sloth wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Well, I don’t do any drugs, so that might give me a different outlook.

But even so, in general, if we were looking at stats and numbers, I’m sure violent crimes are more likely to be carried out by my supposedly angelic fellow private citizen.

Is it a crime to stop someone and badger them?

Depends on if the badger has been defanged and declawed. What an odd question.

Your angelic fellow private citizens will not stop you and badger you, the cops will. They can do it because it is not against the law.

I started a thread awhile back that I labeled Cops. For some reason the moderators changed it to An Episode of Cops. Any how, I stated that all you had to do is watch one episode of Cops and you would see that most Cops are out harassing people all in the name of ? The War On Drugs ?
If we would take away the war on drugs we could employ a few strong, kind people that would go catch bad people .

My angelic fellow citizens are more likely to commit a crime against me, period. They’re also more likely to stand around hoping somebody else will be the one to intervene if I, or a loved one, is the victim of a violent attack. [/quote]

I am not saying I would be more likely to have a crime perpetrated on me by a cop rather than a criminal. I am saying that I am more likely to be harassed by a cop than have a crime perpetrated on me by a criminal

46

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Sloth wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Sloth wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Well, I don’t do any drugs, so that might give me a different outlook.

But even so, in general, if we were looking at stats and numbers, I’m sure violent crimes are more likely to be carried out by my supposedly angelic fellow private citizen.

Is it a crime to stop someone and badger them?

Depends on if the badger has been defanged and declawed. What an odd question.

Your angelic fellow private citizens will not stop you and badger you, the cops will. They can do it because it is not against the law.

I started a thread awhile back that I labeled Cops. For some reason the moderators changed it to An Episode of Cops. Any how, I stated that all you had to do is watch one episode of Cops and you would see that most Cops are out harassing people all in the name of ? The War On Drugs ?
If we would take away the war on drugs we could employ a few strong, kind people that would go catch bad people .

My angelic fellow citizens are more likely to commit a crime against me, period. They’re also more likely to stand around hoping somebody else will be the one to intervene if I, or a loved one, is the victim of a violent attack.

Sloth, I understand the point you’re trying to make and you’re not necessarily wrong but neither is the side you’re arguing with. I do not have a criminal record so I have not had a bunch of run-ins with police in that regard but I have had a lot of speeding tickets.

I took one of the speeding tickets to court in Florida. The ticketing officer did show. I witnessed him lie through his teeth UNDER OATH. Blatantly lie. Despicably lie. Over a measly, lil ol’ $75 speeding ticket!

On another case, I was pulled over in eastern Colorado for speeding. Without going into all the details, the officer just out-and-out lied to my face. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt I was going about 50 mph in a 55 mph zone and he ticketed me for 63. I was driving a semi into a head wind and it was such a stiff one that I had to gear down. The truck physically was incapable of doing 63 in that gear. If I was driving the truck full out down a hill with a 15% grade I couldn’t have done 63 in that gear.

I relayed this information to him as I sat in his patrol car watching him write the ticket. I politely questioned his calibration on his radar gun. As a result he threatened to take me to jail. Yes, that’s right, he threatened to take me to jail because I suggested his radar gun was improperly calibrated.

Now these are just two minor incidents (I could tell of more) involving relatively insignificant alleged traffic violations but it sure made me cynical about the purported shiny halos of many law enforcement personnel.

In addition, I had a friend back in the 90s who had moved to Montana from Topeka, Kansas where he had been a city cop for a number of years. He used to tell all kinds of firsthand stories about the near total corruption of the Topeka police force. It would absolutely floor you. And this coming from a town that is relatively moderately sized and located smack dab in the middle of Heartland, USA.

Bottom line is based on what I’ve learned about human nature in general over the 48 years I’ve been on this earth and the ol’ “Power corrupts and…” adage, I really don’t have any qualms believing a lot what has been mentioned here on this thread. There’s too much of it going on in the business world, the political world, etc. to suggest that it doesn’t go on to any great extent in the law enforcement world even in the grand ol’ US of A.[/quote]

I was pulled over in Missouri and the cop tried to bully me in to searching my vehicle, I was on 20 hours with no sleep and almost lost my temper because of all the stupid questions.

47

The thing is, I don’t believe a cop sports a halo and wings simply because they’re cops. They have to recruit from my fellow angelic citizens, after all.

But, the repeated over-exagerration of goose-stepping, police-state, for fear of walking out the front door and running into homicidal/brutal cops, USA, is ridiculous. If the low statistics of police brutality is enough to make one hate cops, surely one must be a racist. Or, anti-male (which some feminists are). The stats regarding such prejudices are a bit heavier than rampaging cops, no?

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49

[quote]I am not saying I would be more likely to have a crime perpetrated on me by a cop rather than a criminal. I am saying that I am more likely to be harassed by a cop than have a crime perpetrated on me by a criminal

[/quote]

Perhaps it’s because the cops are keeping the criminals off the streets and away from you?
In all seriousness, though, has/is anyone who has opined on this subject either been a law-enforcement officer or had one as a family member? I ask this because it’s one of those “walk a mile in his/her shoes” kinda thing. Nobody likes a cop until they need one, no-one appreciates what the police do for them, and the only comments most people have are in response to a few isolated incidents where they just see the “beat-down.”

You usually never see the events leading up to the few seconds of video you use as a step-stool to get up on your soapbox. In the matter of a few cops being overly aggressive and brutal versus not having them around to protect us from the worst of the scum, I’ll go with the “lesser of two evils,” thanks.

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[quote]pushharder wrote:

Bottom line is based on what I’ve learned about human nature in general over the 48 years I’ve been on this earth and the ol’ “Power corrupts and…” adage, I really don’t have any qualms believing a lot what has been mentioned here on this thread. There’s too much of it going on in the business world, the political world, etc. to suggest that it doesn’t go on to any great extent in the law enforcement world even in the grand ol’ US of A.[/quote]

I think that is absolutely wrong, push.

I recently read of a major social psychology study at a university that disproved the “power corrupts” theory that gets parroted like gospel.

Their conclusion, as has been mine, was that power allows for the expression of one’s true personality and desires. It is not corrupting in and of itself. This is a very important distinction.

Police powers have actually made more more leery of governmental structures as a general thing…

I have a lot more to say on this entire subject but I had a long day. Maybe tomorrow.

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[quote]AdamLaw wrote:

Perhaps it’s because the cops are keeping the criminals off the streets and away from you? [/quote]

Fair statement. [quote]

In all seriousness, though, has/is anyone who has opined on this subject either been a law-enforcement officer or had one as a family member? I ask this because it’s one of those “walk a mile in his/her shoes” kinda thing. Nobody likes a cop until they need one, no-one appreciates what the police do for them, and the only comments most people have are in response to a few isolated incidents where they just see the “beat-down.”[/quote]

I am not a cop, but I’ve done a lot of work cops do either working security in a casino or in places like Iraq. I also have several friends that are cops. I absolutely sympathize with many of the situations cops get put into. I have also stuck up for lots of cops when they were forced into making judgement calls.

That said, the road goes both ways here. I was very pro-cop and had even considered joining up. A few bad run-ins with them to include watching my friend randomly arrested as well as me being cuffed facedown in the snow, insulted, intimidated, and illegally searched in front of my wife for giving only my name and not my ID among other similar situations have put a bad taste in my mouth.

My attitude toward cops has since softened, but there isn’t a whole lot of trust in our relationship. [quote]

You usually never see the events leading up to the few seconds of video you use as a step-stool to get up on your soapbox. In the matter of a few cops being overly aggressive and brutal versus not having them around to protect us from the worst of the scum, I’ll go with the “lesser of two evils,” thanks.[/quote]

Absolutely true. But the argument here as I see it isn’t that cops all suck. I simply see a profession (much like our military) with too many people drawing a paycheck and too few professionals. We need cops; we just don’t need so many. And when you have a lot of cops you need criminals to justify their existence. Enter the war on drugs and various other mala prohibitum crimes.

As for cops protecting me from the worst of the scum, I trust good citizens would be able to narrow that group if we all took responsibility for ourselves and our communities. But we’ve allowed ourselves to be defanged and thus our courage has withered with it. Having lots of cops relieves us of our duties as citizens. It has a negative impact throughout society.

Besides, I trust that most of the time the cops don’t save people. They clean up the mess and catch the bad guy after the fact. Point is that I don’t rely on cops to protect me. I’ve taken that responsibility unto myself and delagated a little to my Springfield XD40.

mike

54

[quote]Sloth wrote:
The thing is, I don’t believe a cop sports a halo and wings simply because they’re cops. They have to recruit from my fellow angelic citizens, after all.

But, the repeated over-exagerration of goose-stepping, police-state, for fear of walking out the front door and running into homicidal/brutal cops, USA, is ridiculous. If the low statistics of police brutality is enough to make one hate cops, surely one must be a racist. Or, anti-male (which some feminists are). The stats regarding such prejudices are a bit heavier than rampaging cops, no?[/quote]

I agree there are no rampaging cops; on the other hand there are few rampaging criminals. The majority of police work revolves around the war on drugs. We have so many cops out there beating the bushes for drugs, that they are harassing good citizens.
I tried to do a survey once on this web sight, and the people that disagree with your point will sabotage it. But the moderators should figure out a way to survey everybody. I would be curious how many people on this sight have been wrongly harassed by the police.

55

[quote]JD430 wrote:

I think that is absolutely wrong, push.

I recently read of a major social psychology study at a university that disproved the “power corrupts” theory that gets parroted like gospel.

Their conclusion, as has been mine, was that power allows for the expression of one’s true personality and desires. It is not corrupting in and of itself. This is a very important distinction.

Police powers have actually made more more leery of governmental structures as a general thing…

I have a lot more to say on this entire subject but I had a long day. Maybe tomorrow.

[/quote]

I agree with that. Power in of it self does not corrupt but will allow for the expression of bad personality traits. Also personality traits are developed in large part due to accountability of actions. Over time the power granted will cause most individuals to slip little by little.

I also feel it takes a certain individual to want to be a cop. Those are people that really in essence like to be in charge and hold authority over other people. In time they need little excuse to exercise their power over anyone they feel is “resisting”. The Police officers ego grows with time and get to the point of them acting like sheep herders driving sheep.

Of course there are always exceptions. I met a few nice police officers that gave me tickets with a apologetic disposition and then helped me out in court. But that is a huge exception. HUGE.

Even my Police officer friend who honored me with a Family Member Badge tells how most in his department are noting but assholes. Typical of any government job i guess.

56

[quote]Gregus wrote:
Power in of it self does not corrupt but will allow for the expression of bad personality traits.
[/quote]

What is the motivation to seek power? Once a person or group has it they will never want to let it go and will do everything to keep it.

Thus, power ALWAYS corrupts.

57

[quote]JD430 wrote:
pushharder wrote:

Bottom line is based on what I’ve learned about human nature in general over the 48 years I’ve been on this earth and the ol’ “Power corrupts and…” adage, I really don’t have any qualms believing a lot what has been mentioned here on this thread. There’s too much of it going on in the business world, the political world, etc. to suggest that it doesn’t go on to any great extent in the law enforcement world even in the grand ol’ US of A.

I think that is absolutely wrong, push.

I recently read of a major social psychology study at a university that disproved the “power corrupts” theory that gets parroted like gospel.

Their conclusion, as has been mine, was that power allows for the expression of one’s true personality and desires. It is not corrupting in and of itself. This is a very important distinction.

Police powers have actually made more more leery of governmental structures as a general thing…

I have a lot more to say on this entire subject but I had a long day. Maybe tomorrow.

[/quote]

So there should be better screening and psychological profile testing of potential officers.

Maybe even spot checks at certain time points in an officers career.

58

[quote]AdamLaw wrote:
You usually never see the events leading up to the few seconds of video you use as a step-stool to get up on your soapbox. In the matter of a few cops being overly aggressive and brutal versus not having them around to protect us from the worst of the scum, I’ll go with the “lesser of two evils,” thanks.[/quote]

So you justify the act of beating down some of the citizenry as “lesser of two evils”?

What part of serve and protect did you miss?

I don’t give a rats ass about what a cop did yeasterday, who he stopped or what a hero he might be to his co-workers if he goes off the rails and beats the shit out of someone.

It’s the schmuck cops who get overly aggressive and brutal that are making your job harder and making it alot easier to distrust law enforcement.

A cop who abuses the power that has been entrusted to him and brutalizes someone is not the lesser of two evils, he is on par with the criminals. By commiting a criminal act, he has become a criminal.

It’s realy very simple, but let me guess- you don’t know the laws, you just enforce them?

59

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Sloth wrote:
The thing is, I don’t believe a cop sports a halo and wings simply because they’re cops. They have to recruit from my fellow angelic citizens, after all.

But, the repeated over-exagerration of goose-stepping, police-state, for fear of walking out the front door and running into homicidal/brutal cops, USA, is ridiculous. If the low statistics of police brutality is enough to make one hate cops, surely one must be a racist. Or, anti-male (which some feminists are). The stats regarding such prejudices are a bit heavier than rampaging cops, no?

I agree there are no rampaging cops; on the other hand there are few rampaging criminals. The majority of police work revolves around the war on drugs. We have so many cops out there beating the bushes for drugs, that they are harassing good citizens.
I tried to do a survey once on this web sight, and the people that disagree with your point will sabotage it. But the moderators should figure out a way to survey everybody. I would be curious how many people on this sight have been wrongly harassed by the police.
[/quote]

Just out of curiosity have you ever had a bad experience with a doctor or dentist? If you have would you complain about all doctors and dentists?

Wouldn’t a bad experience with an MD or DMD be more of a critical situation due to your vulnerability at the time?

60

[quote]snipeout wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Sloth wrote:
The thing is, I don’t believe a cop sports a halo and wings simply because they’re cops. They have to recruit from my fellow angelic citizens, after all.

But, the repeated over-exagerration of goose-stepping, police-state, for fear of walking out the front door and running into homicidal/brutal cops, USA, is ridiculous. If the low statistics of police brutality is enough to make one hate cops, surely one must be a racist. Or, anti-male (which some feminists are). The stats regarding such prejudices are a bit heavier than rampaging cops, no?

I agree there are no rampaging cops; on the other hand there are few rampaging criminals. The majority of police work revolves around the war on drugs. We have so many cops out there beating the bushes for drugs, that they are harassing good citizens.

I tried to do a survey once on this web sight, and the people that disagree with your point will sabotage it. But the moderators should figure out a way to survey everybody. I would be curious how many people on this sight have been wrongly harassed by the police.

Just out of curiosity have you ever had a bad experience with a doctor or dentist? If you have would you complain about all doctors and dentists?

Wouldn’t a bad experience with an MD or DMD be more of a critical situation due to your vulnerability at the time?
[/quote]

No, because I choose my doctors carefully, I am free to walk away at any time and they are practically never armed and obsessing about their “authoritay”.

Probably because they earned the trust I put in them and do not expect automatic respect because they can holster a gun without hurting themselves.