T Nation

PN-->AD First Two Weeks

Hi everyone.

After eating PN-style for many months, I decided to try switching to the AD, while leaving my training unchanged, to compare and see what would happen. I’m completing the two-week induction phase today (Friday) and will be doing my first carb-up over the weekend.

During the two week induction phase, I strictly limited myself to meat, fish, eggs, cheese, oil, nuts and moderate quantities of good veggies like spinach, broccoli, lettuce, cucumber and celery.

I did not, however, measure portions or count calories. Sorry. My lifestyle would not really permit this even if I wanted to do it, since I travel a fair bit and eat hotel/restaurant meals with other people. Pulling out a digital scale would be not only inconvenient but also more than a bit weird… (Apologies to the TRULY hardcore! :slight_smile:

My approach, therefore, was to strictly follow the allowed food choices but to control portions instinctively, eating as much as I felt like, over 5-6 feedings per day. When on the road, for a quick snack, I might shotgun a spoonful of EVOO, have a handful of walnuts+fish oil capsules, and drink some whey protein. But for the most part, it was real food, with an emphasis on meat and cheese and eggs.

I have supplemented with a multivitamin, creatine, fish oil (15-20g per day), Alpha Male, some extra antioxidants (beta carotene, Vitamin C), and ZMA before bed.

Here are the results so far:

BEGIN AD:
Weight: 97.5kg
Waist: 35 1/4 inches
BF%: approx. 13% (3-site skinfold test)

AFTER 2 WEEKS (DAY BEFORE FIRST CARB-UP)
Weight: 97.7kg
Waist: 35 1/4 inches
BF%: approx. 12.5% (3-site skinfold test)

I would have to say that the change in weight and in BF% is so small that it is probably a result of measurement error/random daily fluctuation. This is borne out by the good old-fashioned waist measurement, which remains unchanged. (I have problems getting a reliable, accurate skinfold at the abdominal site; the margin of error in that reading could account for the change in BF%.)

To sum up, going from PN to AD for the last two weeks has brought about no noticeable change in my body comp.

This could be because eating PN-style was already low-to-moderate carb, with the non-fruit/veggie carbs taken in only at breakfast and then post-workout. That means that a PN-eater, who is timing the carbs properly and taking only moderate quantities of carbs, might already be “fat-adapted”, or perhaps “bi-metabolic”, able to run on either carbs or fat. (Is there such a metabolic state? This is not addressed in the AD book, nor in PN).

The major changes involved in going from PN to AD for me were:

  • getting rid of all fruits and berries
  • not having oatmeal with breakfast, Surge PWO, and low-GI carbs with PWO meal
  • not having yoghurt and cutting way back on milk (just a couple of drops in my tea/coffee)

and

  • hugely increasing my intake of saturated fat

In terms of how this diet has made me feel physically so far, I have to say that I haven’t experienced the ‘crash’ that others have described during the process of adaptation, again possibly because PN was already moderate on the carbs to begin with. The only thing I can point to is that the reduction in fibre (I haven’t supplemented fibre) has had a noticeable impact on my bowel movements - stool seems more compacted and takes a bit more work to get out. (Hope that was not too graphic.)

Subjectively, I don’t miss the oatmeal, Surge, or low-GI carbs (sweet potato etc.). But I definitely do miss apples and berries, as well as yoghurt. I feel less healthy without them in my daily diet and am a bit worried about relying on supps for all the good stuff I am missing.

Lastly, I am a bit worried about the long-term health effects of consuming so much fat, especially saturated fat. The good doctor doesn’t talk much about the link between saturated fat intake and cancer in the AD book.

Anyway, I will keep going for a while and will report back on what happens during/after the weekend carb-up.

Relax, about the measurements etc… the AD takes a while to get truly rolling - they mention this often in the AD thread. I’ve been on and off it a couple of times and it really only starts working as it should be after a couple of months.

The initial break-in phase is just the start - apart from the scale and BF-measurement, what doest he mirror say?
I remember always looking ‘dryer’, ‘leaner’ …

Two weeks isn’t enough of anything to justify coming to a conclusion.

[quote]fairbairn wrote:

Lastly, I am a bit worried about the long-term health effects of consuming so much fat, especially saturated fat. The good doctor doesn’t talk much about the link between saturated fat intake and cancer in the AD book.

[/quote]

You don’t have to eat so much saturated fat on the AD. You can choose leaner cuts of meat like chicken, fish, seafood, turkey etc. and just sub in other fats like olive oil, fish oil, avocados, nuts, seeds etc. Maybe that would ease your mind a bit about the high fat in your diet.

One of my favorite stand by meals great for the AD:
egg whites, some yolks, avocado and chicken sausage make and omelet with that…very tasty!

[quote]Chef Lisa Marie wrote:
fairbairn wrote:

Lastly, I am a bit worried about the long-term health effects of consuming so much fat, especially saturated fat. The good doctor doesn’t talk much about the link between saturated fat intake and cancer in the AD book.

You don’t have to eat so much saturated fat on the AD. You can choose leaner cuts of meat like chicken, fish, seafood, turkey etc. and just sub in other fats like olive oil, fish oil, avocados, nuts, seeds etc. Maybe that would ease your mind a bit about the high fat in your diet.

One of my favorite stand by meals great for the AD:
egg whites, some yolks, avocado and chicken sausage make and omelet with that…very tasty!

[/quote]

More than 50% of your fat intake on the AD should be saturated though, as red meat is the primary food source. Why are people still so afraid of saturated fat? It’s not 1994 anymore.

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
More than 50% of your fat intake on the AD should be saturated though, as red meat is the primary food source. [/quote]

I didn’t read that saturated fat from red meat was supposed to be your primary source of fat on the AD in Dr. DiPasquale’s e-book. I guess I will have to go back and re-read it. I typically understood it as trying to get even amounts of all the types of fats and a variety of different protein sources?

Good point! Except maybe change that to 1984.

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Chef Lisa Marie wrote:
fairbairn wrote:

Lastly, I am a bit worried about the long-term health effects of consuming so much fat, especially saturated fat. The good doctor doesn’t talk much about the link between saturated fat intake and cancer in the AD book.

You don’t have to eat so much saturated fat on the AD. You can choose leaner cuts of meat like chicken, fish, seafood, turkey etc. and just sub in other fats like olive oil, fish oil, avocados, nuts, seeds etc. Maybe that would ease your mind a bit about the high fat in your diet.

One of my favorite stand by meals great for the AD:
egg whites, some yolks, avocado and chicken sausage make and omelet with that…very tasty!

More than 50% of your fat intake on the AD should be saturated though, as red meat is the primary food source. Why are people still so afraid of saturated fat? It’s not 1994 anymore.[/quote]

          Yeah, he's right..that's what ramps up your testosterone is the sat. fat...I cut down on it now that I am cutting, but still keep some in like heavy cream in the pro shakes, and a little steak here and there..

I just cut overall fat to around 40-45% during the week…Lisa has some good pointers there though, the extra virgin OO, and fish oil for days, and I like Hemp oil, as it has a perfect ratio of all three Omega’s 3,6,9…so that goes down nice…

                It's an awesome way to eat and stay lean and muscular..
                 good luck, Tonebone

I’m on Barr’s version of the AD and I will tell you that should have used a food log and you should be now. I don’t care about your busy lifestyle. You need something to accurate count the number of carbohydrates and fiber that you’re really eating.

Use a pen and small pad to write down approximately what you ate after each meal or use the notepad function of your mobile device, then enter what you ate in FitDay.com when things settle down (like before bed, etc.).

I’ve been lifting 10 years and I realized only last month that my biggest mistake was never using a food log or counting calories.

fairbairn, I am also finishing my 2nd week on the AD, having transitioned from a Paleo-inspired diet. I too was concerned about the possible lack of micronutrients on this diet, especially since I’m not taking multivitamins any more.

But I did some numbers and saw that I can eat a shitload of veggies Mon-Fri without going over the magic 30 gr of carbs. Also, on the weekend carb-up (on top of rice, potatoes, etc.) I stuffed my face with various fruits.

By doing this I feel sure to get all the micronutrients my body needs.

Thanks everyone for all the tips and encouragement.

Chef Lisa Marie - that recipe was so good sounding I had it for breakfast!

Regarding types of fat, my reading of the AD book is that the diet is supposed to be heavy on saturated fats, with a smaller amount of mono and polyunsaturated fats mixed in for variety.

I re-skimmed the entire book but couldn’t find any specific guidance on what percent of fat should be which kind of fat. The sample menus are very heavy on saturated fat, though.

The question is mainly addressed in the Q&A in chapter 6:

"Marine lipids, or fats associated with fish, are very important. You should get some of your fats every day, or every other day, from fish products. Use salmon oil capsules if you don�??t like fish. Opt for saltwater fish over freshwater where possible, and don�??t be afraid of lobster or shrimp. Unless you have a chronic problem, they shouldn�??t present any real
cholesterol problem.

Also, try to balance out the consumption of saturated fats from meat with some mono
and polyunsaturated fats where possible.

  1. Are there certain fats I should be avoiding?

As long as you include marine oils and some polyunsaturates to control cholesterol, you
shouldn�??t have to be too restrictive. You shouldn�??t be eating a pound of beef tallow every day but, on the other hand, steak and burger and the like will be encouraged. If you find that you can only take in 4�??5,000 calories a day when bulking up and you need extra oils, you may want to use vegetable oils. Take a half an ounce a couple times a day. Salmon oil caps will also increase calories.

  1. Margarine or butter?
    I take no sides here."

THE WEEKEND + MONDAY

After two weeks of no carbs, I went nuts on Saturday morning and had “American diner breakfast” - pancakes, French toast, waffles, syrup… I even had sugar in my coffee. I hadn’t eaten that kind of food for years!

After that it was pretty clean - berries, apples, oranges, peaches, bananas, oats, bread, rice… Plus I drank a few litres of yoghurt.

Come Monday morning, my weight was up 2kg to 99.5kg.

Following the good doctor’s advice, I did a heavy workout on Monday afternoon. Leg day! Using the same weight I had struggled to squat for 4 x 6 the previous Monday, I blasted out 6 sets of six reps, ass to the grass, with shorter rest periods than usual.

Very cool. The only thing I don’t like at this point is the bloated feeling. I am not used to gaining 5 lbs in a weekend. Supposedly a lot of that is water, so we’ll see what I weigh on Friday.

Now the next step will be to start cutting calories and see if I can lose 1-2lbs of fat per week while keeping my current strength levels. My goal is to get down to 8% within 2 months while holding onto my current LBM.

I’ll keep posting my progress here and look forward to benefiting from your great advice!

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Two weeks isn’t enough of anything to justify coming to a conclusion.[/quote]

I love these long-winded posts that conclude with: “I tried x for three days. I didn’t notice anything different. Therefore, x does not work.”

BF Bullpup - what is Barr’s version of the AD? Where can I get info on it? Thanks.

Misere - nice to meet you. Cool that we started at the same time. Are you doing the AD to bulk or cut?

Hi CaliforniaLaw. I think what I said was, after my first carb-up weekend, I gained 5lbs and then squatted 6x6 with a weight that I struggled to do for 4x6 the previous week. This is the beginning of week three and I am committed to doing this for at least a few months.

[quote]fairbairn wrote:
Misere - nice to meet you. Cool that we started at the same time. Are you doing the AD to bulk or cut?[/quote]

Hi mate,

How about if I do it to both bulk and cut? :slight_smile: