T Nation

Please rip up my routine and help me make it better.

How does this schedule look for trying to put on mass/str while losing a little fat?

I just came off the V-Diet and I have some newbie gains avaliable on basic exercises like squat and bench that were kind of neglected during that regiment, so I think its possible for me to up poundages by at least 10 lbs/week or so for a few weeks here. After that I was going to go on Thibs Get Jacked before going on a more or less permanent DC style bulk w/ minimal/no fat gain regiment.

I’m still trying to lose fat because although I did lose about 22 lbs during my V-Diet, some of that, I’m pretty sure, was muscle, my waist is still at 35", and I don’t have my six pack yet. I’m considering what I’m doing for the next couple of weeks to be kind of a weight maintenance period to recover from the v-diet. I’m 5’10", 198 lbs right now, and I’m guessing around 15% BF but I haven’t had it tested.

6:00 P+C meal
9:00 P+F meal w/ green veggies
11:00 1 hr LISS cardio
12:00 P+F meal w/ green veggies
2:00 workout followed by 2 scoops Surge
4:00 P+C meal
7:00 P+F meal
10:00 2 scoops Metabolic Drive

Two P+C meals, 1 hr LISS cardio, then one more P+C meal, two P+F meals and 2 scoops Metabolic Drive before bed.

same eating as Tue/Thu but probably no cardio.

My workouts right now are:
M: Chest/Back
W: Legs
F: Shoulders/arms

A P+F meal for me is like 6-8 ounces of beef/whole chicken with a bowl of steamed spinach/broccoli, and a P+C meal would be a 8-10 oz chicken breast + ~200g of sweet potato or equivalent calories brown rice.

Main questions:
a) Is the timing of the cardio ok or should i really be trying to move it somewhere else?
b) Is this carb cycling and am I doing it right, or do I have P+F/P+C meals in the wrong places?

Thanks for reading and if I’ve omitted anything you would want to know then plz let me know.

Ok answers to what’s been asked already:

By “relative noob” I mean that I haven’t really done much of my own (successful) program design. As far as strength, I’ve hit “good” levels (330 bench, 430 triple on squat, 400 deadlift all ~200-215 lbs) according to an article that came out here a long time ago that I can’t remember the name of but I’ve also had two joint surgeries in the past five years that have made it hard to progress, so basically I’m 28 and slightly weaker than I was in college, but as of now I’m healthy and ready to hit it hard. I’ve made good progress on 3-4 way splits before and I’m just coming off the short, full body type workouts from the v-diet so I thought it would be a good change of pace.

Why so many P+C meals on non-lifting days: CT said in his carb cycling codex to reduce carbs by like 25% on non-lifting days and split them between your first three meals… so that was the idea there.

I think Andersons was right about the cardio… I tried doing an hour of 4 MPH 4 degree walking today at 11:00 and at 2:30 when I made it to the gym I was starving, completely unmotivated, and almost pulled a groin on squat warm-ups today so something needs to change there, at least on leg day.

Read the articles in the training & nutrition sections. Then rethink what you’re doing and what your goals are. That should push you in the right direction.

First off, congrats on making it through the V-Diet! You obviously have the willpower, and looking at your numbers, you have a decent base of strength. You do need to lose a bit more fat, so here’s my best advice:

3 days per week - normal routine, something like bench/squat/dead. You could probably keep doing the exercises you did during the V-diet (yes I read your thread). Fasted cardio first thing in the morning two of those days, not on leg day.

2 days per week - do some intervals, like that V-burn mother from the V-diet. You won’t die, you’ll just put those extra carbs to use. This will get you in very good cardiovascular shape and turn your body into a furnace instead of a storage tanker.


high carb - leg day
med carb - other two workout days
low carb - all others

That’s about it. Oh, and once you settle on a plan, don’t Goddamn change anything for a good six months, maybe a year. Therein lies the secret of bodybuilding.


Fasted cardio, ugh.

Oh well, that gives me a use for my billy club… wife likes to stay up and keeps me up too till midnight or later so I’ll just have to knock her ass out and drag her to bed at 10:00.

Intervals sound great on the off days.

By “low carb” do you mean one P+C meal in the morning and then 5 more P+F meals for the rest of the day or all P+F or what… there’s lots of definitions and schools of thought running around and reading too many articles gives me some information overload. I could follow the guidelines in the Intro to Carb Cycling article to keep it simple since the goal there seems to match mine.

My lifting routine I drew up looks kind of like what you said… I have chest/back on monday, legs wednesday, and deads/shoulders/arms on fridays (first post was already too long so I omitted some detail). I really like using antagonistic pairings with ~1 min of rest in between sets… its seemed to work to build strength, but is it a good plan? I know anything works if you hit it hard enough but some things work better than others.

Thanks for reading and taking the time to reply and give me some good feedback.

There’s a whole argument going around with fasted cardio. I’d rather see you do it then hate it and give it up, y’know? Do it when you can fit it in, just do it and don’t let it kill your workouts.

Carbs you can judge by the mirror, if you’re not losing fat, cut carbs first on those off days. Give it a couple weeks before you change things around, of course. Since you’re coming off a very restrictive diet, maybe keep those carbs low for a bit, just so you don’t bloat up from all the water retention, not to mention your insulin response might be amped up.

As to the workouts, if you’re gaining strength, you’re gaining muscle. Even if you maintain strength but lose body weight, guess what, that’s fat loss. Try to match or beat the log book and you’ll do fine.

Easier said than done! But remember, even a shitty program done with kickass effort is better than a great program that nobody can follow. Good luck, but as you know, luck has nothing to do with it.


Next question, how would you progress on this type workout:

Do you up the weight if you get all your sets? Do you up the reps? If you finish the whole workout and don’t miss a rep, do you up all the exercises? A little progression guidance and critique of workout would be appreciated.


Incline DB/pullups

Reverse Crunches/Standing Calf

Dips/T-bar Row

1x8@245, 1x6@265, 3x5@285


Seated Calf/Wood Choppers:

Deadlift/Standing Military

Closegrip Bench/EZ-bar Preacher Curl

OH DB Ext/DB Curl