T Nation

Please Judge My Cycle Plan


#1

Hey everybody, im in need of some critism and advice on my first cycle.

I plan to do a 10 week cycle of Sus 250, injecting 1ml (250mg) per week. However from what i have read on many forums, most recommend injecting a dose of 500mg every 8 days to ensure that blood level don't become unstable, however i can only obtain 10ml of the stuff, what are your opinions on this?

My current weight is 86 KG at 5'10" at around 14% BF. I have some minor gyno as a result of puperty.

I smoke cigarettes but plan to quit before i start my cycle.

During the cycle i am planning to eat around 3500 - 4000 calories.
My protein aim each day is around 250 - 300g from mostly red meat, white meats and whey powder.
My carbs will be mostly from low GI sources (complex carbs) such as brown rices, steel cut oats and pasta.
Fats will be mostly from the meats, flax & fish oils.

My supplementation will consist of a blended whey powder (isolate, concentrate and casein), BCAA, creatine, and maltodextrin for an insulin spike PWO.

My main goal for doing this cycle is mainly the strength gains but mass wouldn't be bad. I do kungfu 2 times a week and i plan to workout the other 3 days with mainly body weight compound exercises such as pull/chin ups, dips, stair sprints. I will also be doing some barbell exercises such as squats and dead lifts.

For my PCT i am having some problems as i cannot obtain any Tamoxifen Citrate (i.e. Nolvadex) as its strictly for prescription in Australia (and 3 doctors refuse to prescribe it for my minor gyno). To substitute im hoping that Novadex XT and Sustain alpha will be sufficient. Another problem i am facing is getting hCG, do you think it will be needed if i do such a low dose of sus?

So basically i need any opinions on my plans, my main questions are...

  1. Do you think i will need any HCG on this cycle? (i see many different answers on the internet)
  2. How much mass do you think i could gain, some say 20LBS? ( i really dont want to gain more than 10KG)
  3. Do you think my PCT will work or should i keep sourcing for Tamoxifen?

  4. Any other critisism please give.

Final note: The only Steroids i can obtain is Enanthate, Sus 250 and Dynobolin.
I chose Sus 250 because i don't want a drastic mass increase.

Thank you,
Jack


#2

Injecting 1ml of Sust a week is bad. You need to inject it atleast twice a week because of the esther lengths.

Tamoxifen is easy to get in Aus trust me I am in Perth, just look harder.

HCG wont be required really.

You wont gain 4 Kg on this cycle let alone 10kg. Esspecially with your training, sort your training out before even thinking about roids.

I would replace the Sust 250 with Enanthate, it will be easier to get stable blood levels.

I would source some Adex and double your Test level. Lets say 1ml twice a week of Enth, you will get better results.

How old are you?

What are your major lifts (Bench, Dead, Squat, Overhead Press)?


#3

[quote]Vatic wrote:
Injecting 1ml of Sust a week is bad. You need to inject it atleast twice a week because of the ester lengths.[/quote]

Psh, anything longer than EOD is a sin.


#4

First…That Guy…I always lose my concentration when ever i see one of your posts. Avatar is the shit.

Second…the post…Why are you choosing your current workout plan? If you want mass which is what you say at the begining of the post then you should look into some of the mass building workout plans…5x5 etc. But at the end you say you choose sus because you don’t want mass. You should refine this and see if you really want/need to do AAS.

Really without more of your stats, it will be hard for everyone to help you. If you do not already have a workout routine you need to spend time in the gym first. You wont find anyone here that will tell you to take AAS before you have spent the better part of a 2years(min) training hard in the gym and dieting right.

If you do a cycle, you should wait until you have Nolv. I have no exp with the Nolv that you have but I have seen people on here trash it. wait until you have all your gear and then rethink you plan.


#5

Plus it is all very well saying “i will eat this and that” but if you currently survive on ice cream, smores and cheese products then you WON’T eat “like that” at all…

10ml of Sust is not all you need to run a cycle - EVEN if that is all the AAS you are willing/able to use(not enough IMO) - as you will need PCT drugs, Ancillary drugs to control the side effects you may get. The steroids them selves are not the main aspect of a cycle.

Also it takes time to quit smoking, and it is very very rare someone can say ‘i will quit on Tues’ and actually manage to do just that. You should also be aware that for a smoker, a high Test’rone level will often increase the number of cigarettes you want to smoke.

Working on the 2.5g total drug you have - i would suggest a 7 week run - this will give you ~350mg/wk - and contrary to popular belief, a Decanoate estered drug will still give good results over >6 weeks.
It would be my choice over a 10wk x 250mg cycle. Of course i’d recommend 8 weeks at at least 400mg… but you don’t have that.

JJ


#6

i have been training for about 1 year at the gym but i cant be very consistant with it due to kungfu and overtraining. I was doing the starting strength program for a while and i managed to get from around 74kg 12% bf to 85-86kg 14-15% bf which i was quiet happy with.
I have tried obtaining the nolvadex for several months (as i was originally going to use it to try and remove my gyno) but not even my stupid dealer knows of it or hCG and has done cycles without them.
So you rekon an enanthate only cycle will be better than a sus 250 only cycle?

BTW. A mate of mine ran sus 250 fine @ 1mL per week and gained 17KG.


#7

Well you will find that most guys here will slam you for not having Nolvadex on hand for PCT. Have you tried to find Clomid, as that seems to be everyones second choice.

I am in your position as well, I am in the middle east and it is very easy to find the gear, but trying to find an AI here is close to impossible. There are plenty of people here that use gear but nobody in this region seems to go the AI route…they all use Serm (Nolv) during cycle to counter gyno. As far as HCG, someone else I am sure will chime in but this helps greatly to reduce recovery post cycle. This too I cannot find here in Kuwait. I think you should do what I did…wait until you can get all of your gear…cycle and pct then make a solid plan for you 8-10 weeks.

Remember this is a pretty tough board, don’t get sensitive if you get slammed. Even when guys are bashing you they tend to drop some serious knowledge.


#8

[quote]jackster69er wrote:
i have been training for about 1 year at the gym but i cant be very consistant with it due to kungfu and overtraining. I was doing the starting strength program for a while and i managed to get from around 74kg 12% bf to 85-86kg 14-15% bf which i was quiet happy with.
I have tried obtaining the nolvadex for several months (as i was originally going to use it to try and remove my gyno) but not even my stupid dealer knows of it or hCG and has done cycles without them.
So you rekon an enanthate only cycle will be better than a sus 250 only cycle?

BTW. A mate of mine ran sus 250 fine @ 1mL per week and gained 17KG.
[/quote]

17kg is just shy of 40lbs.

That would be the largest amount of weight (not muscle per se, but weight) gained on ANY cycle i have ever witnessed or read about in the past 10 years of research. So yes - i call BS.

Anyway - ridiculous statistics aside, you will find that many ‘street’ or gym dealers have little knowledge of AAS in general - and none of ancillaries. This has been the the case with 2 of the 3 street dealers i ever used, with the third maybe knowing but not proving he didn’t!
So you need to take it under your own initiative to control what you put in your body - you shouldn’t let your suppliers lack of knowledge be the reason for fucking you up (or at best inhibiting your results) - as it only makes you look even MORE stupid. You wouldn’t want that.

I wish someone was as straight with me when i first started out - i had to learn the hard way as many of the experienced posters here did - and i guess maybe that is one of the reasons experienced posters post - to help out those who are where they once were.

Now as for 1 year of inconsistent training - wow - you REALLY want to be flamed outta here doncha?!
Are you seriously suggesting that you, a kid who cannot make it to the gym regularly, a kid who is happy at 185lbs (thinking you are over 5’10" yes?), a kid who has ONLY JUST walked into a gym (yes - 1yr is a very very short time when talking about fitness and muscle - as it is a lifetime pursuit) needs to inject hormones to progress? Get fucked.

I understand that you may not have the energy to train 3x/wk when training ju-jitsu 3 or 4 times a week… (if it is just 1 day a week please leave now) but in that case you either need to be planning regimes where you focus on your martial art and do lifting 1-2x/wk to compliment it - or you focus on the gym with that as a side hobby, which will benefit your muscle gaining endeavours.
Saying you are inconsistent at the gym due to other activities suggests you feel you should be doing more but don’t. If you feel you should then you probably should, in which case your excuse is a lie and you are just being lazy.

Steroids will assist both goals above - but you are not specific enough in your training and have no goal, you are not really trained enough and 1 yr of gym work leaves someone still a newcomer to weights, you are not consistent enough and i suspect your diet and lifestyle leaves something to be desired too.
I am NOT saying that one has to be a peak athlete before they start - but i think they need more ducks lined up before starting to fuck with hormones that can have consequences.

IF you have it already and are going to do it regardless of the advice of other more experienced users - Google ‘research chemicals, tamoxifen’ and find on the first page a company that sells oral liquid products semi-legally.
Buy Anastrazole for during the cycle and Tamoxifen for afterwards PCT.
Dose the Anastrazole at 0.25mg EOD - 0.5mg ED for each day on the cycle, until you begin the tamoxifen and the Tamoxifen beginning 2 weeks after the last injection at 40mg a day for 2 weeks then 20mg a day for another 2.

Then off for 5 years :wink:

JMO


#9

I’m sure one could run Sust250 or even Test E @ 1ml a week and see results. The thing is, it is in no way close to optimal and if we are looking to maintain stable levels (and I assure you we are) then it is defeinitely not desireable.

What are your goals? You said you don’t want mass, so is it just strength? TBH, I don’t think AAS is for you. I don’t think I saw an AI and if you have pre-existing gyno then you definitely don’t want to run without a SERM. The main reasons why I don’t think AAS is for you however, is that you said you’ve only been training a year and you are smoking, but will quit when on cycle.

Most people can’t go cold turkey for ten weeks and besides if you’re a smoker it takes longer than that after you take your last drag for your lungs and body to recover. To each his own, but I think you could benefit greatly by simply improving your training, nutrition, and quitting smoking. While doing this you can keep an eye out for AIs and SERMs so that when the time comes to try AAS (hopefully a few years down the road) you’ll have everything onhand to ensure your cycle is a success.


#10

17kg…I call Troll.


#11

Sorry for my redundant addition…for some reason Brook’s post didn’t show up on my computer until just now?


#12

Thanks for everything guys, im going to take your advice and goto the gym abit longer, rethink by diet and just be abit more focused. I will however still get some tamoxifen citrate in hope to remove my current gyno.
I have already bought the sus but the bloke i bought it off said i can sell it back.

Ill come back in a few months and tell you how im going.

Thanks again,
Jack


#13

[quote]jackster69er wrote:
but i cant be very consistant with it due to kungfu and overtraining.

You mean underrecovering?


#14

[quote]jackster69er wrote:
Thanks for everything guys, im going to take your advice and goto the gym abit longer, rethink by diet and just be abit more focused. I will however still get some tamoxifen citrate in hope to remove my current gyno.
I have already bought the sus but the bloke i bought it off said i can sell it back.

Ill come back in a few months and tell you how im going.

Thanks again,
Jack[/quote]

A good man, with a good plan.

Don’t get Tamoxifen to ‘remove’ your gyno.

Firstly NOTHING will remove it if you can see/feel your mammory glands. However you can make it smaller and thus less apparent by controling estrogen - in my experience at least.

If you get either Anastrazole (Arimidex) or Letrozole (Femara) and dose the Adex between 0.2-0.35mg ED or the Letro at 0.1-0.3mg ED then these doses SHOULD (it is very hard if not impossible for me to know for sure without blood tests taken after dosing of the drugs - you can do your own bloods though by buying an Estradiol [E2] swab test on-line for around $30USD) lower your natural levels of estrogen to levels that are nearer the lower end of the ‘normal’ spectrum for the hormone.
This will in turn lead to less estrogen around to agonise the receptors in the breast and does reduce the size of the swelling to a fairly significant degree DEPENDING on the amount of gyno you have already.

Tamoxifen works to antagonise the receptor at the breast - but it needs to attach and have activity at the receptor to do this - i personally find that when on Tamoxifen that my small case of gyno swells up slightly (this is totally temporary and drops as soon as the tamox is discontinued). I am not saying that this is exactly what happens - but it certainly fits with my experiences and current knowledge - but i have been wrong before and will be again :wink:

If they bounce or if you can see them through a sweater you need surgery IMO!