T Nation

Please help........

I have been a member of the forums for almost 3 years now.  I have read a lot of posts and decided that gear is not the way to go for me.  I want to stick with OTC supplements, and this is the combo that I am going to try.  Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Cycle will be on 3 weeks, off 1 week.

M-Anti E
EAS CytoVol
GNC Pro Performance Creatine (Effervescent)
Protein mix (25 grams per serving)
TwinLab Tribulus Fuel
Animal Pak

I am considering going with the workout regimen that is in that NO2 book. I do not know if anyone is familiar with it, but it seems to be okay.

My main concerns are these:
I am 6 ft. 260 lbs. I have been in weight training since high school, and am 26 years old. I have always been fat. I think that my bf% is between 38 and 40%. What should my diet consist of? I get all these articles on eating 5,000 calories a day, but what if you are big like me? My goal is to gain mass, and lose the flab that I have. Do I lose it first, then pack on mass? Or, do I dive in head first and push the hell out of cardio to trim down?

I am rambling on and will throw it out there…thanks in advance for all the advice given.


What’s up T-Sayle. Before you go out and buy all of those supplements which are expensive and more than some of the time useless, what does your diet look like? If you have been following one, post it so people can help you tweak it. If not, my best advice is find a diet plan that works, (t-dawg 2.0 is a favorite around here) and stick with it. As far as training goes, there is also some kind of program lying around T-mag waiting for you to read it. My advice on training is watch out how much cardio you do in the stage that you are trying to build the most mass. If you are running hard and lifting hard, you diet needs to match this i.e. you need to have enough clean fuel to put in the tank. Good luck with the results.

I’d have to second bosshogoutlaw’s comments and say you need to get your diet in tune first. There’s an article in one of the previous issues that basically gives a pyramid and your diet is the base of your pyramid. T-dawg 2.0 is a good diet but as for training, if your bf is really close to 40% as you think it is, I’d really consider something like “fat to fire” or “meltdown training”, both of which can be found in the FAQ section. You definately need to focus some on reducing your bf level and not bulking up.

As for the supplements, there have been many t-mag articles showing all you need is plain old creatine or micronized creatine, not any fancy stuff. However, since I think you need to be focused on slimming down, creatine doesn’t seem like a good idea. I’m a big fan of biotest products so if you’re going to use the tribulus I’d go with tribex or wait till they come out with the supercharged version. Also, I think if you use Any supplements it should be something like hot rox to help you reduce fat while maintain lbm.

Basically…I’d be looking to lose fat right now not pack on mass if I were you. When you slim down quite a bit then you can focus on gaining lbm.

Someone in the same situation that I’m all to familiar with. Hopefully I can help a bit.

First, as Boss Hog Outlaw said, get your diet in order. Check out Foods That Make You Look Good Nekid, http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/172food.html, for food suggestions and either one of the T-Dawg diets for specifics. T-Dawg 1 is here: http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_diet.html
T-Dawg 2 is here: http://www.testosterone.net/nation_articles/243tdawg.jsp

Second, forget all those supplements. You simply don’t need them untill you’re ready to pack on muscle. And as big as you are, I would get rid of the fat LONG before I started to put on muscle. Go with a quality Multi-Vitamin, an Omega 3 supplement, and a fat burner such as Hot-Rox. If you have trouble getting in all your macronutrients, get some Classic Grow! to help out.

Third, for a workout, I would do something simple. If you’ve been training since High School, why not go back to basics? While you’re losing fat would be a GREAT time to get back to basics. Just keep the weight at a level that you can control (with a reduced calorie diet) and crank it up!

I’m sorry man, but there is no way you have been READING T-mag for 3 years. All the info you need is here. First off, you have to lose some flab before you can start thinking about gaining more mass. There is no such thing as a program that will let you lose that much fat and gain that much muscle. A tried and true diet that worked for me and lots of people is T-dawg 2.0. All those supps you listed are, well, not garbage but close. Go get a good eca stack , and follow that diet and the pounds will go. Once you are down to 20% or so you can think about bulking. Good luck man

Don’t waste your money - forget the supps for now. Nutrition is what you need to focus on. It’s the foundation for any good program - lowering fat or bulking up. Once you understand nutrition you can tranform your body however you like. The 5000 cal diets are for people that are ready to pack on muscle. At this point you’re not ready for that - you need to lower your bf % to 15% or less before you decide to pack on muscle. If you try to bulk up with a high bf % you will put on more fat than anything else.

I once lost 60 lbs (28% bf to 12%) in only 12 weeks going on a high protein, very restricted (almost none) carb diet. It’s not for everyone. You need to be very mentally strong to withstand the urges to have a slice of pizza or a cheeseburger or a beer at the ball game (go Giants) or chocolate…

This is what I did (again this is not for everyone, but it works):

  1. Weigh yourself and get an accurate reading of your bf % so you can mark your progress. Do this every 4 weeks.

  2. You should eat 6 SMALL meals per day about 2-3 hours apart. This will rev up your metabolism. As far as what you should eat: EVERY MEAL should have MINIMUM 30g of protein or between 1-1.5g of LEAN protein per lb of body weight (1 boneless, skinless chicken breast is 30g, so are 10 hard boiled egg whites or 1 can of tuna). Cut out all sweets and fast food. Be careful on carbs - no pasta, rice, potatoes. Some veggies are ok and healthy (only veggies with very low carbs - you can look up the carb amounts on the net). 1 serving should be an amount that fits in the palm of your hand. No fruits :frowning: - too high in carbs and sugar.

  3. You should also drink about 10 cups (100 oz.) of water each day - making sure you get enough water is very important for many reasons - your body just functions better for one. When on a low carb diet your body produces “ketones” and it’s important you have enough water flushing through you. Don’t drink milk, juices or sodas during this time (all carbs). Tea is ok.

  4. Hit the weights 3 times per week. Adding muscle will help speed up your metabolism. I did chest/back on Mon, legs, calves, abs on Wed, and bi’s, tri’s and shoulders on Fri. Do at least 2 seperate excercises for each group and 3 sets of 10 to start. If possible, you should hit the weights FIRST THING IN THE MORNING on an empty stomach so you’re burning stored fat and not stored food. Eat a high protein meal (2g per lb of body weight) immediately after to feed your muscles.

  5. Cardio. 5 minutes before you lift for a warm up. AT LEAST 3 times per week on off days for 30 minutes (if you can do 45 minutes great - if you can do cardio on all your off days even better - if you really want to be a maniac go in the morning and night). And when I say cardio I mean HIGH INTESITY. Don’t be a puss or the fat will never come off. Really challenge yourself. I like the treadmill starting at level 7 for a few minutes, then 8 for a minute, 9 for a minute and back down to 7. I keep repeating until my time is up. This should really make you break a sweat and get you huff’n and puff’n. If possible, you should do your cardio FIRST THING IN THE MORNING on an empty stomach so you’re burning stored fat and not stored food. Wait 1 hour after cardio before eating to give your metabolism a chance to attack some of the stored fat.

  6. Supplements: when you’re on such a restricted carb diet, you miss out on important nutrients from fruits and veggies and grains, so it’s important to take a good multi-vitamin/mineral. Also look into a supplement that gives you all the nutrients you’re missing from fruits and veggies in 1 capsule. Get a protein powder low in carbs and sugar for when you need 30g of protein, but don’t have time to prepare a meal. Also, a good thermogenic will really help to burn fat and speed things along. Back when I did this I used Xenedrine RFA (with ephedra). That’s no longer available, but I hear really good things about Biotest’s Hot Rox. Glutamine and creatine is also good to help with your muscle growth. I would also get your hands on MAG-10 now before the stuff is completely gone. As I’m sure you know it’s no longer available from Biotest :frowning: but many online reatailers like netrition.com still have some. Also check eBay. Save the MAG-10 for later when you’re ready to start packing on muscle.

  7. When your bf % is down to 15% or less take 2-4 weeks to gradully re-introduce your body to good carbs. If you all of a sudden switch from a no/low carb diet to a 5000/day calorie diet you’ll overwhelm your body with carbs and put on too much fat.

I’m not an expert, but again this worked for me. I may have forgot something - feel free to PM me if you have questions. I’m sure you’ll get a lot of opinions from others here about this post. Good luck.

Hey T-Sayle,

First off, if your bodyfat is that high, it needs to be addressed at the exclusion of anything else…you are in a dangerous place health wise. Any solid training program will do, but for God’s sake, don’t use the one from Ed Byrd’s book, pick one from this site, ideally focusing on preserving strength while you diet…

I believe that at your bodyfat level, you can eat a very low carb diet without worrying about losing much muscle tissue…until you get to around 20-25 percent bodyfat, I don’t think it’s a major concern. Just remember that fat loss is a function of diet, not training, and losing fat is difficult and tedious, but not a mystery… it’d be great if there was a secret we could share with you, but it comes down to dietary discretion; dropping bodyfat, for me at least, is not much fun…just suck it up, and best of luck…

One more thing…your comments on your supplement choices and protocol indicate that you need to educate yourself far more in this department…some of the stuff on that list is junk… I don’t know what Testagen is but if it’s any kind of supplement at all other than a protein powder or multivitamin guess what…YOU DON’T NEED IT!!! Plus, you make it sound like you are ‘cycling’ all of the supplements…there’s no need to cycle your use of protein powder…The fitness industry emphasizes the role of supplements in order to get their hands into your pockets…as someone who’s trained for awhile, with some successes and a lot of failures, I can tell you that had I never purchased a single OTC supplement in my life, I could be in the same place, strength-wise, as I am now…take your focus off supplements; you need to cut your teeth on the basic, day-to-day drudgery of progressive training and intelligent eating…good luck

Gkid650, that’s one heckuva post!!! I think I can retire now. (grin)

Thanks Terry - you and everyone else inspired me to help. Again, I’m not an expert, but it worked for me.

I agree with what Ramo had to say also.

T-Sayle, one more thing - just remember this isn’t a quick fix, but a LIFESTYLE CHANGE. There’s a lot of programs out there from weight watchers, jenny craig, body for life… Many of them work at helping reach your goals, however you always hear how people put the weight back on and often EVEN MORE!

Why? Because once they hit their goals they go back to their old ways and I’m sure you know what they say about the definition of insanity…