T Nation

Please Help (16 Years Old) Chronic Pain


#1

I was a very small scrawny kid when I was twelve (4ft10 and 80lbs. I started bodybuilding because girls picked on me for being small and skinny. I took up bodybuilding and LOVED it. I went to the gym 5-6 days a week to lift weights, ate like a madman and by the time I was 13 I was 5ft tall and 110lbs. However, since I knew fuck all about training back then I had a bro split which consisted mainly of chest and arms. Eventually I got very rounded over and looked like a hunch back so I was sent to physio. The physio straightened me up but it was then when I started getting chronic pain. The pain started in the ligaments around my spine, I can move the ligaments on command and it hurts when I do, my scapula are also started to crack whenever I shrugged my shoulders or moved my shoulders forward. The pain got so bad that I had to stop lifting, but I didn’t want to so I kept training through the pain for a good six months or so until it was so unbearable I had to stop. However my training for those six months was spot on, training with compound excersizes and hitting every body part twice a week, I shot up to 130 pounds. However I had to stop lifting, but my hopes were high and I couldn’t wait to get back to lifting. Fast forward to now. I’m 16, five foot 3-4 140 lbs and I’m unable to do ANYTHING. I can’t do ANY sort of excersize without having a bad flare up in my pain. I have pain in my back, shoulders, knees, chest, ribs, hips, everywhere you name it, I probably have pain there. I’ve been to multiple physios, chiropractors, osteopaths, medical pilates etc and none have seemed to have helped. In early 2016 I was prescribed arimidex for precocious puberty (hit puberty around nine years old and my bone age was a bit advanced but doctors won’t give me hgh) and was put on 1mg of arimidex per day. My mother (who is a doctor, seems to think the arimidex is causing a lot of my pain, but I had pain before arimidex, it just seems to have gotten much worse over the past year). I was also diagnosed with joint hypermobility symdrome by a rhuematologist who then just dismissed me and gave me nothing to manage pain (but she did tell me I’d never lift weights again which killed me). I have had multiple blood tests that came up with nothing (no autoimmune disorders), but my hemocrit was quite high (last year my testosterone tested at 1049ng/dl, probably due to the arimidex.) I’ve gotten multiple MRIs, x-rays and ultrasounds which came up inconclusive. I recently got an ultrasound done on my left shoulder but I never got the results and it’s been a fucking month since the ultrasound but the doctor said “I don’t recall getting any ultrasound results”. I have had many strengthening excersizes for scapula stabilization posture etc and all that shit is fixed but my pain still stands. At the moment my shoulders click and pop, I can actually sublax both shoulders on command, my shoulder blades grind and crunch if I shrug my shoulders, my knee grinds when I straighten my leg (think leg extension), my wrists click my back cracks whenever I lean over a chair, I’m pretty sure I have costochondritis because my chest hurts when I breathe deeply and my ribs and rotator cuff area hurt on my right side. I have pain everywhere and doing ANY activity makes it worse, even walking for long periods of time make it bad. I sleep 14+ hours a day just to function normally and as soon as I get home from school I go straight to sleep. I also got another bone age done and my endo said I have max 1-3 cm left of growth and I’m 5’4. My fraternal twin is 5’10, my father is 5’7 my mom is 5’5. I’ve also become very depressed about everything, if I had one wish in this world Itd for my pain to be gone, second wish would be if I could lift again. I’ve also got pain in my lower spine and hips and I can sort of sublax my left hip. My collarbone cracks as well and I have many other painful things. Doctors refuse to give me pain medication due to my age because they are too worried about addiction. This is where steroids come into play. I have never taken them but I am very educated about them. I know about most of the steroids, the esters attached to them, the half lives, molecular structures, side effects, pct etc. I have never done steroids but anecdotal reports seem to show that nandrolone can mask joint pain and connective tissue pain. I know nandrolone is very suppressive and would need a test base. I also know HGH can heal connective tissue and fascia (I think I might have soft tissue damage that the mris are not picking up). However the MRI did pick up inflammation in my knee and my doctor told me to go to physio about it (which I had been doing with no success). I also know deca has anti inflammatory properties so I was wondering if taking Nandrolone​ could ease or even eliminate my pain. Like my quality of life is so low at the moment and honestly I couldn’t give a fuck if my natural testosterone production is screwed or if I “Stop growing” that’s not even a fucking concern in the first place, I’m like one of the shortest kids in my grade and my growth plates are apparently starting to fuse. I can get steroids easily if I want to. I just want to know if it will help. I think one of the reasons that the reason I get so much pain is because my muscles are not strong enough to hold my joints and spine in place due to hypermobility and tense up because they need to hold shit together (not a doctor just my guess). Literally living like this sucks so hard it’s not even funny and I’m willing to do whatever it takes to cure my pain, even if it means I die at 30. The pain fluctuates. Sometimes I have good days (I only ever have good days if I do absolutely nothing) however on bad days it’s awful, especially when I’m in public and I’m fucking sick of people telling me to get some acupuncture or take an alleve. My theory is if I took a Supra physiological dose of testosterone coupled with nandrolone, my muscles would build up and get strong enough to support my joints and spine (there was a study showing testosterone without excersize still gains more muscle in men that don’t take it but excersize). I’ve gone on a few holidays over the past few years and they are becoming impossible to enjoy when I’m in constant pain. I can’t enjoy life anymore, I’m very weary about posting shit online and this is the first time I’ve ever used any kind of online forum to ask a question (T-nation seems to be the only one where I can actually ask a question once I sign up. Flame if you must as I know teenagers and steroids don’t mix but I don’t know what to do anymore. Also I’m fully aware of the fact that if I use steroids, I may need try for life but honestly at this point I couldn’t care less. Steroid users of T-nation, is nandrolone a cure for my pain? I’ve fallen so far behind everyone (in physical fitness testing at school all the girls and boys ran faster than me, I’m last at nearly everything now.)


#2

You need to change the title of this thread. I saw 16yo and deca/nandrolone and I didn’t want to click on it. It might be better in the injuries rehab section.

Sorry about the pain man. One thing that strikes me about your symptoms. Get tested for Lyme Disease. The tiredness and severe joint pain can be undiagnosed Lyme.

Arimidex can tank your E2 which makes joints hurt. What’s your E2 at?

I don’t think steroids are your answer. What are your markers for inflammation? My wife had hyperextended joints with pain all through high school and the doctors had no answers. Also headaches and tiredness frequently. We went on a diet that excluded inflammatory foods and the symptoms stopped after two weeks. The Paleo crowd is a bit dogmatic and annoying but they’re on to something with inflammation. If your markers are too high the docs can put you on anti inflammatory drugs.

If your mom is a doctor she will recognize the acne, aggression, facial hair etc… and bust you right away. Then she’ll likely make you quit without PCT. So you’ll have all your previous symptoms plus a screwed up HPTA.


#3

Man I suggest you see a sports doc, get a MRI and go from there. Sounds like your doc may have bound some nerves up


#4

Yeah as above maybe some nerves are FUbar’d I’d try getting a couple sessions with both a chiro and some ART treatment on areas like the clavicles/front delts and hips. Neither will be a cure-all but should bring pain down.

Are you still fairly rounded forward/bunched up?


#5

the answer to your question is simple. Steroids will not do what you want them to do, and I would give it an 80%+ chance that using them now will reduce the quality of your life, for the rest of your life. I think steroids would compound your problems. I can go into details if you have specific questions, but I think you would really need a complete re-education on what nandrolone ACTUALLY does to understand why it’s not a good option for you. I don’t want to do that, but I am willing to answer a few questions.

The bottom line, though, is that you need to go to a good doctor. You’ve clearly done real structural damage to yourself, and steroids don’t fix that. Often, they can exacerbate that sort of problem. Look at a lot of the stronger powerlifters who use, and you’ll see rounded shoulders, inward rotated palms, an awkward gait, etc. Steroids do not fix these sorts of issues. You should be doing rehabilitative exercises right now, not heavy compound movements. You should be in physical therapy. Find yourself a highly respected sports medicine dr. and see what can be done. You can’t get a proper diagnosis from anyone on here.


#6

Thank you :slight_smile:


#7

Haven’t checked but I’m going to an Endochrinologist today to see if I can get off the arimidex, I will request to get my E2 checked. Thank you for the help :slight_smile:


#8

No, my posture is very good now, a physio fixed that up


#9

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the replies, I am going to an Endochrinologist today and will request to get my e2 checked (and to come off arimidex) and I will try anti-inflammatory diets, I will also change the title because as it was stated the title (16 and Nandrolone does not mix lol)


#10

Also I did get blood tests earlier, my inflammatory markers were ok but my TSH was at 2.5ish so I’m going to ask my endo for a test of my T4/T3


#11

Steroids are not the answer here.

1 mg/day of Arimidex (anastrozole) is a lot - most guys on the suggested TRT protocol here take 1 mg/week to control E2 (estradiol).

Your E2 is most likely tanked and contributing to your severe joint pain. Get your E2 checked then stop the Arimidex for at least 5-6 days and see how you feel.

Circumin and fish oil are great anti-inflammatories that can be taken once the Arimidex levels are cleared from your system.

You need to make a thread in T-Replacement with a link to this thread so KSman can help you out.

Your TSH should be closer to 1 and you want to test the active thyroid hormones free T4 (fT4) and free T3 (fT4) - regular T4 and T3 are not helpful diagnostics.


#12

I went to my endo and he wouldn’t give me a thyroid test because apparently anything below 5 is “normal”… Anyhow he told me to go off the arimidex for two weeks and see how I go but he didn’t want to test my e2 as he couldn’t see any reason as to why it’d be causing my pain. However from research and anectotal stories I see on forums, Joint pain on arimidex seems to be very common, especially on my dose.


#13

Ask for a referral to an endo who will do tests you want done and actually reads up on side effects of drugs he prescribes. He will get insulted when you ask him. You need to learn to be your own advocate.

That’s when you remind him he isn’t the one in pain. He’s giving a child a drug that lowers Estrogen, but won’t test estrogen levels…:facepalm:


#14

I don’t see him again for another three months, however if he is uncoorperative again I say that.


#15

I can’t comment on the Arimidex, however both myself & my girlfriend have got rid of chronic pain by going vegan.

I was the last person I’d expect to go vegan, but it’s transformed my chronic pain & 18 months later I now box & do Muay Thai - which 18 months ago I’d never ever believe was possible.

I now do about 14 hours of training a week between boxing & Muay Thai. I used to be a mess of crunching gnarly joints just putting a shelf up!

My girlfriend has autoimmune related arthritis & was taking quite heavy drugs for that (methyltrexate).

6 months after we went vegan together, her inflammatory markers were virtually zero - the best they’ve ever been.

We eat organic & have turmeric & ginger most days, as a paste with black pepper. That’s it, no supplements.

It took about 3 or 4 weeks for my chronic pain to really improve, 8 weeks and it was dramatic.


#16

Hey man I have chronic pain and would love if you could elaborate on this…

What do you think it si about going vegan thatdecereases pain? The fact that its organic? The tuermeric and ginger?

I should give this a shot.


#17

Hey there, sorry for such a late reply!

Why it’s worked for me?

I really believe humans are designed to be herbivores (vegan), rather than omnivores.

And given we’re herbivores, that meat & dairy are very harmful to humans.

So you could eat organic, have lots of turmeric & ginger, but if you’re still eating animals, it’s kind of like eating great organic vegetables & fruit but also smoking tobacco - then wondering why your health is not great.

There’s tons & tons of evidence that meat & dairy is horrendous for human health, but Animal Agriculture, like Big Pharma is a billion dollar business - so we’ve been brought up to believe what makes massive companies billions of dollars - because the concern of huge corporations is money, not our health.

It’s mainly how my health has dramatically improved + documentaries which make me whole heartedly believe that. 2 years ago I was a dedicated meat & dairy eater!

What I watched was:

Cowspiracy

Food Matters

Forks Over Knives

Vegucated

What the Health

Food Inc.

Those all focus on human health, they do not focus on animal welfare.

But the best thing to do is simply give an organic, vegan whole food diet a go for 4 weeks & see how you feel.

Nothing changes, if nothing you do changes :slight_smile:


#18

Lots of nonsense on this thread… Arimidex at too high a dosage is likely contributing to your symptoms by reducing your oestrogen too much. You sound like you also need to see a decent physio who can provide you with a solid strengthening program to improve your muscle imbalances.


#19

awesome job, digging up a 6 month old thread to respond with the same thing 5 other posters suggested when this was originally posted, before the vegans took a shit all over the thread.