T Nation

Please Explain How Test Relates to E

I have read and re-read all stickies and believe I understand them.
Below are my latest T numbers taking Clomid 25mg EOD. Bloods came after I started to taper clomid and was down to 2 weeks of 25mg 2X-W

what will happen to my test levels if/when I get my E2 in check ?
I understand I won’t feel well until I get my E in check.
I am mainly concerned my Free T number… Advice

Free Thiiodothyronine 6.3 range 3.5-6.5
Thyrotropin (sensitive TSH) 2.14 range .30-4.0
FSH 7 range 2-8
LH 12 range 2-6
estradiol 256 range < 150…
Cortisol 297 range in am 170-720…
Total test… 21.1 on scale of 8.4-28.8
free test 37.3 on scale of 31.0-94.0
SHBG Biochemistry 40.4 on scale of 10.0-70.0

Your E2 lab is the wrong one. It should be <40. Beyond that you can’t get an accurate lab for E2 while you’re on Clomid. Clomid is a weak estrogen and throws off the lab.

When you stop Clomid, if you’re not on an AI, estrogen will rebound hard.

Your T will bump up some if you’re on an AI and when E2 is lowered SHBG follows. That will increase bioavailable T. I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish but playing with T within the normal range doesn’t do a whole lot.

[quote]brentf13 wrote:
Your E2 lab is the wrong one. It should be <40. Beyond that you can’t get an accurate lab for E2 while you’re on Clomid. Clomid is a weak estrogen and throws off the lab.

When you stop Clomid, if you’re not on an AI, estrogen will rebound hard.

Your T will bump up some if you’re on an AI and when E2 is lowered SHBG follows. That will increase bioavailable T. I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish but playing with T within the normal range doesn’t do a whole lot. [/quote]

Nah it’s just a different unit of measure. pmol vs. pg.

256 pmol/L (50-200) = 70 pg/mL(20-50)

[quote]brentf13 wrote:
Your E2 lab is the wrong one. It should be <40. Beyond that you can’t get an accurate lab for E2 while you’re on Clomid. Clomid is a weak estrogen and throws off the lab.

When you stop Clomid, if you’re not on an AI, estrogen will rebound hard.

Your T will bump up some if you’re on an AI and when E2 is lowered SHBG follows. That will increase bioavailable T. I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish but playing with T within the normal range doesn’t do a whole lot. [/quote]

Nah it’s just a different unit of measure. pmol vs. pg.

256 pmol/L (50-200) = 70 pg/mL(20-50)

I wouldn’t worry about your Free-T #. It’s a completely subjective result because there is no direct way to measure it. I would be more focused on results in the gym and other S&S. There’s no reason to want to have a high Free-T anyway since as soon as there is a deficiency somewhere T immediately dissociates from albumin and several other plasma proteins.

I had some fairly noticeable S&S of high estrogen when I was at 13.5 T /49 E2. It’s quite a difference when the E2 comes into check, libido, body fat, water retention, mood all change. It could be a bit unsettling because the change could seem dramatic. As mentioned T will rise and as your body adjusts you might get things like acne or joint pain.

[quote]C27 H40 O3 wrote:

[quote]brentf13 wrote:
Your E2 lab is the wrong one. It should be <40. Beyond that you can’t get an accurate lab for E2 while you’re on Clomid. Clomid is a weak estrogen and throws off the lab.
When you stop Clomid, if you’re not on an AI, estrogen will rebound hard.
Your T will bump up some if you’re on an AI and when E2 is lowered SHBG follows. That will increase bioavailable T. I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish but playing with T within the normal range doesn’t do a whole lot. [/quote]
Nah it’s just a different unit of measure. pmol vs. pg.
256 pmol/L (50-200) = 70 pg/mL(20-50)
[/quote]

You beat me to it

[quote]C27 H40 O3 wrote:

[quote]brentf13 wrote:
Your E2 lab is the wrong one. It should be <40. Beyond that you can’t get an accurate lab for E2 while you’re on Clomid. Clomid is a weak estrogen and throws off the lab.
When you stop Clomid, if you’re not on an AI, estrogen will rebound hard.
Your T will bump up some if you’re on an AI and when E2 is lowered SHBG follows. That will increase bioavailable T. I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish but playing with T within the normal range doesn’t do a whole lot. [/quote]
Nah it’s just a different unit of measure. pmol vs. pg.

256 pmol/L (50-200) = 70 pg/mL(20-50)
I wouldn’t worry about your Free-T #. It’s a completely subjective result because there is no direct way to measure it. I would be more focused on results in the gym and other S&S. There’s no reason to want to have a high Free-T anyway since as soon as there is a deficiency somewhere T immediately dissociates from albumin and several other plasma proteins.

I had some fairly noticeable S&S of high estrogen when I was at 13.5 T /49 E2. It’s quite a difference when the E2 comes into check, libido, body fat, water retention, mood all change. It could be a bit unsettling because the change could seem dramatic. As mentioned T will rise and as your body adjusts you might get things like acne or joint pain.
[/quote]

We’ll I am waiting for the ai to show up.
Hopefully getting E in check things get better…
I noticed a gradual decline over the last 2 months.
I think it must have been my E rising over time

I think you’ll be a lot happier when the E comes down to a more moderate level. Be patient with changes and try to change one thing at a time. For instance, when you start the AI don’t go changing everything about the Test dose/route/schedule. I feel many people that come here, especially the 20-30 crowd, tend to change things every week not realizing how challenging that is for the endocrine system to adjust.

[quote]C27 H40 O3 wrote:

[quote]brentf13 wrote:
Your E2 lab is the wrong one. It should be <40. Beyond that you can’t get an accurate lab for E2 while you’re on Clomid. Clomid is a weak estrogen and throws off the lab.

When you stop Clomid, if you’re not on an AI, estrogen will rebound hard.

Your T will bump up some if you’re on an AI and when E2 is lowered SHBG follows. That will increase bioavailable T. I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish but playing with T within the normal range doesn’t do a whole lot. [/quote]

Nah it’s just a different unit of measure. pmol vs. pg.

256 pmol/L (50-200) = 70 pg/mL(20-50)

I wouldn’t worry about your Free-T #. It’s a completely subjective result because there is no direct way to measure it. I would be more focused on results in the gym and other S&S. There’s no reason to want to have a high Free-T anyway since as soon as there is a deficiency somewhere T immediately dissociates from albumin and several other plasma proteins.

I had some fairly noticeable S&S of high estrogen when I was at 13.5 T /49 E2. It’s quite a difference when the E2 comes into check, libido, body fat, water retention, mood all change. It could be a bit unsettling because the change could seem dramatic. As mentioned T will rise and as your body adjusts you might get things like acne or joint pain.
[/quote]

So much this. I’m getting a bunch of pimples from increasing T and decreasing E2, and I’m not even injecting testosterone.

As I understood it , t numbers would stay the same after lowering E2 , but I will have more receptors available since they are being freed up by the estrogen blocker

At this point I have also noticed I am very fatigued and could sleep often…
Not much joint pain , but achy muscles and I am barely able to train…
My AI hasn’t shown yet… I ordered liquid as a research chem…
My doctor just believes I should stop the clomid , but I think things could get worse from rebound and would like to get my E2 in check
before coming off