T Nation

Please Critique This Strength Cycle


#1

I'm 38 and have been lifting for over 20 years. I've done several cycles before and my goal with this cycle is strength gains, not really concerned with gaining bulk. Here's my ten week cycle:

weeks 1-10: sustanon, 1000mg per week, half injected on mon, the other half on thurs

weeks 1-10: masteron, 50mg per day

weeks 1-6: tren ace, 50mg per day

hcg 1-12: 500 ius, every 3 days

aromasin 1-12: 10mg eod

proviron: 8-12: 40mg ed

nolva 11-14: 40/40/20/20

thoughts?


#2

Injection frequency of sustanon has been covered a lot lately. EOD.. or since you are injecting every day anyway, might as well break it up every day. Put it all the the same syringe.

If strength is your main goal, and you are planning a meet or something right after the cycle, then use the tren the last 6 weeks instead of the first 6 weeks.

You need to wait till the longest ester in sustanon clears the system to start PCT. You can use the proviron to bridge to PCT and then start it at week 12.

I am not familiar with aromasin dosing because I don't use it, I use adex.

Don't use the hcg all the way up to PCT (or like you have overlapping)
250mg 2-3x a week is sufficient I think.. I don't use hcg so check on that before you take my word for it. hcg is suppressive on its own though, so you should not use it during or all the way up to PCT... end it at week 10 I believe.

If you are planning a meet after you may want to use an oral like halo, drol, dbol at the end. If you aren't planning a meet then you don't need to peak too much at the end so its fine as is.


#3

yeah i meant to say I would start pct at week 13. my mistake there.

I have access to both drol and dbol and have used them extensively in the past. I seem to get very bloated on them.


#4

~If you're shooting ED with the short acting compounds you might as well shoot the Sustanon everyday - I can't think of any reason not too. It will lower the volume down and steady levels more.

~The Masteron has a great effect on the overall cycle and a mild (compared to the test and tren) effect on strength. I'd just run Test & Tren. Something like 150mg/50-75mg per day. That being said I love Masteron and run it with every cycle, but not needed for your goal per se.

~I think your Aromasin is too low but that's relative to you and you can adjust the dosage accordingly.

~I don't understand the Proviron for the last four weeks: Is it for a lean/hard look during that time? Events you have coming up? I don't know, but don't see the rational. I'd just add 60mg (assuming you have 20mg tabs as you said 40mg/day) before a special night out or whatever.

~Start the PCT a week later or really I'd just run it longer and at 20mg a day for the Nolv. I'd actually run the Sust and Tren for weeks 1-10, the Mast for weeks 1-12, and the Nolv for weeks 11-16, but that's a generic rec.


#5

Also why complicate dosing with some everyday, some twice a week, and some every 3 days?
Just keep it simple and Shoot ED, EOD, M-W-F, or M-T.
I'd shoot everything daily and do the HCG 250-500iu twice a week.


#6

Aromasin needs to be taken ED to be effective at all. The metabolic cleaning only takes 24-25 hours.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/88/12/5951


#7

I disagree with "Thebeast"

Mast is great for strength. Second only to tren and test. Several of my training partners and friends in powerlifting use it with great success, and it is a really good substitute for tren if you do not want to deal with the tren sides.

The reason I suggested drol or dbol was because you said your main goal was strength. Both (in my experience drol moreso) help with strength greatly. I assumed not being concerned with bulking meant you didn't care if you did or not. In any case I would expect some bloat from a gram of sus anyway.

Shoot 140-150mg sus daily as close as you can estimate... 0.57-0.6ml if its 250mg/ml
50mg tren ace daily
50mg mast daily

Is the proviron in there for libido? I doubt libido will be a concern with a gram of sus+mast... If strength is your main concern and money is not an issue you can replace that with var, 75-100mg per day. A lot of powerlifters who need to stay in a weight class are using var now and get very good strength gains around 100mg per day. You could also replace it with superdrol. I had fantastic strength gains from it and gained little or no weight. If you don't like the idea of using superdrol, as many on here don't, then I would go with var if money is not an issue.


#8

I never said Masteron wasn't good for strength, I said it was mild for strength COMPARED to Test and Tren and it is. I personally prefer 700mg of Mast to 350mg Tren/350mg Mast a week myself because, though I love Tren, it doesn't fit my needs and Mast does. But let's rationally compare a few things:
1000mg Test VS 350mg Test/700mg Mast - 1000mg Test will yield greater strength gains.
500mg Test/500mg Tren VS 500mg Test/500mg Mast - Test & Tren will yield greater strength.

Sure Masteron is good for strength, Anavar is great for strength but you're not going to find anyone with much experience saying 50mg or even 100mg of Anavar a day with 200-300mg of test is going to yield more strength than high-dose test or tren. Is Anavar or Masteron going to yield more strength? Sure is, but not comparably.

That all being said, I'm a relatively low-test guy and use Masteron, Var and the like in addition, but I'm not fooling myself into thinking it's on the same level, though it fits my goals of added strength and performance.


#9

..and I know you've already got the high test in there and the tren too. So masteron, Anavar or whatever is just going to be additions on top of that, I'm just giving a rec for maximum results with simplicity. Absolutely nothing wrong with Adding or keeping the Mast, I would be running it myself in that cycle at a higher dose, but when people ask for advice/opinions I like to offer the most effective and simple means.


#10

Missed the compared to although I said second to tren and test.

Still, tren/mast/test cycles are very successful with those I know who have run them.

I suggested var in place of proviron because it would be better than proviron for strength.

And at no point did I say 50-100mg var+low test would equal a high test/tren cycle for strength. Obviously high test wins.

But for his goals, if he is going to bridge to PCT with an oral like his cycle is set up for, var would be better than proviron given his goal of strength. Plus var increases collagen synthesis, so assuming he gets a lot stronger from this, he would benefit from the increased tendon strength var provides.

Mast would still be a good addition if strength is his goal.


#11

I've actually decided to do a blast/cruise cycle instead and have been thinking of doing the following:

weeks 1-10: sust, 150mg ed

weeks 1-8: mast, 50mg ed

weeks 1-4: anadrol, 50mg ed

weeks 6-10: tren ace, 75mg ed

weeks 1-12: aromasin, 10mg ed

weeks 3-10: hcg, 250 ius e3d

then at week 13 go into my 8 week cruise period where I would do 50mg test prop eod - not sure if I would incorporate nolvadex at this point and/or aromasin. Would probably continue with 250ius hcg e3d starting in week 13

Thoughts?


#12

~I'd run the Mast the whole time, I don't see the reason for leaving the last 2 weeks out and it's short ester and less suppression leads itself nicely.
~I'd start the Tren right after the Anadrol, I also don't see the point in the 2 week gap and you might as well run the Tren a extra 2 weeks anyway.
~I'd run the Hcg a week earlier and a week later - are you trying to keep size and function or start it once size begins to get lost? You will be completely suppressed as far as LH days into the cycle so week 2-11 for a total of 10 weeks at 500mcg and 1 average vial, but then I see you might continue it during your cruise so I'm not sure your rational or best protocol for you. I'm always on and run HCG most of the year, taking months off sometimes until I notice I've shrunk lol.

~What are your goals with the various timelines? Are you doses/weeks based on quantity or something?
~What's with the 8 week cruise? Is that before another "blast"? For easy recovery?
~I like the cycle but don't understand:
~The Mast for 8 weeks of a 10 week cycle
~The 2 week gap between Tren and Anadrol, plus they are great together.
~The 2 week gap of HCG during weeks 11-12.
~The 8 week cruise on Prop. Are you coming off after that 8 weeks? If so then why 8 weeks of a psuedo taper when a couple weeks would be enough for a super easy recovery. Is the whole 10 week "cycle" for a particular goal timeline or arbitrary?
Forgive me if these have been answered, I jumped to answer and had these questions after I answered and finished reading this post I'm replying to.


#13

My understanding of cruise periods is that they are generally of equal duration as time on, so I guess for consistency sake, I would be 10 weeks on, 10 weeks cruising, 10 weeks on, etc...you said you are always on - how do you structure your cycle/cruise regimen?? You make good points re the mast and anadrol and I will incorporate this into my cycle. I guess my whole problem with "cruising" is that I'm still not committed being "on" year round, hence the pseudo pct with the nolva for 4 weeks. As you can see, I'm a little confused so any guidance you could provide would be greatly appreciated!


#14

If you're blasting and cruising (never coming off) then really the time off (the cruise) is your base and what you come back to and cruise and maintain on.

You maintain your cruise as your base until: blood work returns to normal, you want to blast again for whatever goal, or whatever the situation. It's not a time â??onâ?? equals time â??on but lowerâ?? thing. I know a guy who's on a blast for 9 months of the year and cruises for 3 months, at least that's how I see it, he sees it as 3 months to get his health back and he takes meds for everything so I wouldn't recommend it, it's a lifestyle and way of life and his life..

Personally I tend to be â??onâ?? for about 3 months out of the year and cruise the rest. Though I do have moments where I do a little blast for 4-6 weeks, it all depends on goals at that moment. But I'm not looking at becoming a 300lb bodybuilder either so it fits my goals, not everyone's.

I have my base which is usually 300mg test c/week and most of the year 300mg mast e/week. On top of that I add things but not removing those two. Right now I'm doing 450mg Test C, 600mg Mast E, 300mg NPP.

I've got some Anavar laying around but I think I'll save that for later this year so that â??cycleâ?? would probably be just my cruise with 50mg var a day on top so: 300mg test, 300mg mast, 350mg Var/week- just a little something added for aesthetics. I would say that for awhile I would blast 6-12+ weeks and cruise about the same. I like 4-6 weeks for Orals and not because of health issues but because I find (2) 4 week cycles nets better results than (1) 8 week for example. I add them goal-based only and not often.

I didn't notice the Nolva for 4 weeks with your updated cycle. If you're on you're on and Nolva isn't doing anything for recovery, though I have used it for a boost to my lipids while also covering E control during certain moments. I could see during your blast using a AI and then switching to Nolva during your cruise â?? this wouldn't be for recovery, but to block any estrogen and help with lipids, but I wouldn't look at this as a long term thing.

I'm kinda getting the idea that maybe you are looking at a really long cycle with a cruise in the middle? I'm still not sure of your goals. Are you staying on year round? Either way and whatever your goal, I wouldn't switch to Prop for the cruise or bridge or whatever it is, I'd do your blast with Sust as planned and then switch to Test E or C at 200mg/week and then add whatever on top of that for your next blast.


#15

My goal is to pretty much stay on year round but I guess for me, mentally, it's a big hurdle as opposed to doing traditional cycles. I don't have goals of being a competitive bodybuilder; I do grappling and some mma as a hobby. I suppose one of my main concerns is being able to have kids.

I'm going to get some blood work done next week and going to get a sperm count as well. But I think I will go with the 10 week sust/mast/tren cycle next and immediately follow that with a cruising period where I'll be on 250mg of test e per week. I'll ditch the nolva entirely and just stay on aromasin/adex and hcg year round.


#16

Ok, so here's my new cycle:

weeks 1-10: sustanon, 1000mg/per week, ed injections

weeks 1-10: masteron, 50 mg/day

weeks 1-4: anadrol, 50mg/day

weeks 1-4: tren ace, 50mg/day

weeks 1-10: hcg, 250 ius e3d

weeks 1-10: aromasin, 10mg ed

nolva on hand if needed

comments?


#17

I don't know if it's just me but I don't get why you guys love masteron so much for strenght. About 2-3 months ago I tried masteron for the first time and it made my muscles do damn tight, it felt like I was always on the verge of tearing something. The whole time I was on it I didnt go all out like I normally do with heavy singles, was sure I was gonna injure myself! I'm only gonna take it again when I'm more on a cutting cycle and don't go super heavy during a diet.


#18

any additional comments on the proposed cycle?