The point is to get an idea of how much weekly volume you’re working with - it doesn’t have to be exact. If you plateau when everything else is in order, you can increase it and spread it across days based on your ability to finish a single session and recover between training days. You can use Prilepin’s Chart as a guideline for workload in a single training day, which most of these programs adhere to.
My coaches generally had me following “split-up” Sheiko programs, where instead of deadlifting once a week, squatting twice and benching three times a week I would do deadlift 2x/week, squatting 5x/week and benching 4x/week. So intensity and volume were waved fairly normally like the sheiko routines (We used mostly #29).
However when I was not preparing for competition I would train more by feel, generally squatting to a daily max+backoffs for volume 5-6x/week, deadlift up to a double or single around 80% followed by speed work 3x/week and benching sheiko style without going very heavy, just volume 3-4x/week. My deadlift increased from 220 kg/~496 lbs. to 250 kg/~551 lbs. in 3 months training my deadlift like that. I didn’t do much in terms of assistance exercises, mainly just a few facepulls.
I meant to post that as a respons to LoRez’ comment, but I don’t know how to do it.
[quote]DaneMuscle wrote:
I meant to post that as a respons to LoRez’ comment, but I don’t know how to do it. [/quote]
Just hit the quote button below their comment to include their quote in your reply.
[quote]DaneMuscle wrote:
My coaches generally had me following “split-up” Sheiko programs, where instead of deadlifting once a week, squatting twice and benching three times a week I would do deadlift 2x/week, squatting 5x/week and benching 4x/week. So intensity and volume were waved fairly normally like the sheiko routines (We used mostly #29).
However when I was not preparing for competition I would train more by feel, generally squatting to a daily max+backoffs for volume 5-6x/week, deadlift up to a double or single around 80% followed by speed work 3x/week and benching sheiko style without going very heavy, just volume 3-4x/week. My deadlift increased from 220 kg/~496 lbs. to 250 kg/~551 lbs. in 3 months training my deadlift like that. I didn’t do much in terms of assistance exercises, mainly just a few facepulls. [/quote]
I think I understand what your coaches did. A typical week of Sheiko 29 can consist of two sessions of the main lift (or variation) in a single day: Monday - Squat/Bench/Squat, Wednesday - Deadlift/Bench/Deadlift, Friday - Friday - Squat/Bench/Squat. Sometimes there can be 2 bench sessions in a day so you can have upwards of 4 squat, 4 bench and 2 deadlift sessions within a given week.
Although the double sessions for a lift are doable, I can understand why a coach would spread the load throughout more days. I guess it was a little misleading at first because I thought you were working at volumes equivalent to Smolov by saying your frequencies were so high but it’s actually about the same as the basic Sheiko which works for a lot of people who aren’t yet ready for the CMS/MS programs (about 50% more volume).
[quote]lift206 wrote:
[quote]DaneMuscle wrote:
My coaches generally had me following “split-up” Sheiko programs, where instead of deadlifting once a week, squatting twice and benching three times a week I would do deadlift 2x/week, squatting 5x/week and benching 4x/week. So intensity and volume were waved fairly normally like the sheiko routines (We used mostly #29).
However when I was not preparing for competition I would train more by feel, generally squatting to a daily max+backoffs for volume 5-6x/week, deadlift up to a double or single around 80% followed by speed work 3x/week and benching sheiko style without going very heavy, just volume 3-4x/week. My deadlift increased from 220 kg/~496 lbs. to 250 kg/~551 lbs. in 3 months training my deadlift like that. I didn’t do much in terms of assistance exercises, mainly just a few facepulls. [/quote]
I think I understand what your coaches did. A typical week of Sheiko 29 can consist of two sessions of the main lift (or variation) in a single day: Monday - Squat/Bench/Squat, Wednesday - Deadlift/Bench/Deadlift, Friday - Friday - Squat/Bench/Squat. Sometimes there can be 2 bench sessions in a day so you can have upwards of 4 squat, 4 bench and 2 deadlift sessions within a given week.
Although the double sessions for a lift are doable, I can understand why a coach would spread the load throughout more days. I guess it was a little misleading at first because I thought you were working at volumes equivalent to Smolov by saying your frequencies were so high but it’s actually about the same as the basic Sheiko which works for a lot of people who aren’t yet ready for the CMS/MS programs (about 50% more volume).[/quote]
Well say one day had 50%x1x5, 60%x2x4, 70%x2x3 and 80%5x3, I would do those warmups and do three triples instead of five, then come in the next day, do the same warmups and the remaining 2 triples at 80%. So really the only thing keeping me from double sheiko volume was a few triples at 80%.
[quote]Haldor wrote:
My program generally follows Wendler’s 5/3/1 strength challenge template with a focus on weaknesses with the assistance lifts.
Primary goal is to get stronger OBV and keep adding weight to my primary lifts.
My squat focus is on speed, bench focus is on the top portion of the lift where I get stuck and deadlift focus is keeping my back tight which I find goes hand in hand with being strong of the floor and maximising posterior chain activation.
My Squat/Dead warm up:
-DeFrancoâ??s Agile 8
-Box Jumps 3x5*
-Exercise ball ham curls 3x6*
-Hip thrust: 3x8*
-Glute ham raise: 3x5*
-Bike 10-15 min*
*all low intensity done for posterior chain activation
Bench/Press warm up consists of DeFranco’s Agile 8 along with a bunch of shoulder mobility work, lightweight pressing and wrist activation.
Monday:
Conditioning + Hockey*
*This isnâ??t hockey played on a team. It consists of drills and technique rather than full on games. Games happen maybe twice a week and are played for fun (though still with full contact). I find it a great form of conditioning.
Tuesday:
Squat: 5/3/1
Good Mornings: 5x8-12
Hip Thrust: 3x6-10
Hanging leg raise 4x8-12
-superseted with-
Ball Slams: 4x15
Wednesday:
Press: 5/3/1
Rack press: 3x8-12
Pullups: 2x8-12
Kroc rows: (after a few warmup sets with light weight) 2x20-25
Pullups: 2x8-12
Thursday:
Conditioning + Hockey
Friday:
Deficit Deadlift: 5/3/1 (Since I am fixing my deadlift, the TM is the most weight I can lift with immaculate technique)
Deadlift: (with 2 second hold just below knees) 3x8
Hanging leg raise 4x8-12
-superseted with-
Ball Slams: 4x15
Saturday:
Bench: 5/3/1 + FSL
Floor press: 3x6-10 @ 60% of bench TM
Pendalay Row: 3x8-10
Dips: 3x10-15
Sunday:
Box Jumps: 5x5
Safety Squat Bar Box Squat: 3x8 @ 50%
Squat: 2x25
Kettlebell Swings: 3x20
Bike: 20 min
[/quote]
Keep it simple. Too much going on in your program.
[quote]DaneMuscle wrote:
[quote]lift206 wrote:
[quote]DaneMuscle wrote:
My coaches generally had me following “split-up” Sheiko programs, where instead of deadlifting once a week, squatting twice and benching three times a week I would do deadlift 2x/week, squatting 5x/week and benching 4x/week. So intensity and volume were waved fairly normally like the sheiko routines (We used mostly #29).
However when I was not preparing for competition I would train more by feel, generally squatting to a daily max+backoffs for volume 5-6x/week, deadlift up to a double or single around 80% followed by speed work 3x/week and benching sheiko style without going very heavy, just volume 3-4x/week. My deadlift increased from 220 kg/~496 lbs. to 250 kg/~551 lbs. in 3 months training my deadlift like that. I didn’t do much in terms of assistance exercises, mainly just a few facepulls. [/quote]
I think I understand what your coaches did. A typical week of Sheiko 29 can consist of two sessions of the main lift (or variation) in a single day: Monday - Squat/Bench/Squat, Wednesday - Deadlift/Bench/Deadlift, Friday - Friday - Squat/Bench/Squat. Sometimes there can be 2 bench sessions in a day so you can have upwards of 4 squat, 4 bench and 2 deadlift sessions within a given week.
Although the double sessions for a lift are doable, I can understand why a coach would spread the load throughout more days. I guess it was a little misleading at first because I thought you were working at volumes equivalent to Smolov by saying your frequencies were so high but it’s actually about the same as the basic Sheiko which works for a lot of people who aren’t yet ready for the CMS/MS programs (about 50% more volume).[/quote]
Well say one day had 50%x1x5, 60%x2x4, 70%x2x3 and 80%5x3, I would do those warmups and do three triples instead of five, then come in the next day, do the same warmups and the remaining 2 triples at 80%. So really the only thing keeping me from double sheiko volume was a few triples at 80%.[/quote]
Thanks for your explanation. That’s an interesting way to approach it.
There’s a quote in Zatsiorsky’s book that basically says that the same volume in two sessions produces a greater increase in strength than that same volume in one session, at least with trained athletes.
Also, lift206, thanks for breaking down those programs in terms of volume and average intensities. I think a more numerical perspective on program design can be very useful.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Also, lift206, thanks for breaking down those programs in terms of volume and average intensities. I think a more numerical perspective on program design can be very useful.[/quote]
No problem, I actually learned from that exercise too. Sheiko spreadsheets contain a bunch of those calculations but I’ve never seen it compared to other programs.
[quote]lift206 wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Also, lift206, thanks for breaking down those programs in terms of volume and average intensities. I think a more numerical perspective on program design can be very useful.[/quote]
No problem, I actually learned from that exercise too. Sheiko spreadsheets contain a bunch of those calculations but I’ve never seen it compared to other programs.[/quote]
Yeah man, that was a sick post. Good stuff.
That’s a lot of program you have there. I train a group of young powerlifters and have found that they get 80%+ of their gains from performing the main lifts. Their program looks like this:
Monday:
Squat: Work up to heavy set or two of 5 reps
Bench Press: Work up to heavy set or two of 5 reps
Barbell Row: 3x8-12
Wednesday:
Deadlift: Work up to heavy set or two of 5 reps
Clean and Press: Work up to heavy set or two of 5 reps
Pull Ups: 3x8-12
Friday:
Front Squat: Work up to heavy set or two of 5 reps
Incline Bench Press: Work up to heavy set or two of 5 reps
Dumbbell Row: 3-8x12
Usually after we lift I will let the boys do whatever they want for about 15 minutes which usually turns into a bicep curl/dick measuring contest because they’re high school kids. About once a week they’ll break out the prowler or the ab wheel. For progression they just try and beat their previous max every week until they stall and then they drop 10% and work back up. Some of these kids are seriously strong. My stepson is 13 years old and 100lbs but he has deadlifted 315 for a double with no belt. My point is that your program DOES NOT need to be fancy, you just need to train like a pissed off banshee. My program is only marginally more complicated than this and I’ve been lifting for years and years and am getting closer and closer to an elite total. The key is the intensity with which you train, not the program itself.