I love the Harold Miner shirt!!
As far as form, looks nice to me. Wide stance, sitting back.
About the lower box squats, as far as I know westside recommends these be done with a closer stance, a wider stance and going that low stresses the hips A LOT. The knees will go forward a bit.
How do you like the box squats by the way, no more deep olympic squats?
[quote]bruinsdmb wrote:
My beef with box squats is that if you are a powerlifter they really aren’t that useful. Something about sitting down with that much weight on my back just isn’t right. Many coaches and lifters have had success with them but many don’t use them at all. I don’t see how it is an explosive lift. Watching the video, I see a slow concentric. If someone can explain how that is explosive go ahead. Front squat forever.[/quote]
Yes well what I meant is that you start with zero inertia, so it builds tremendous starting strength, secondly you have to accelerate from the bottom, then you need to produce maximum force in a rather short range of motion (and minimum time). That’s why it feels like an explosive movement to me despite the apparent speed of the bar.
Other big pluses are also that it helps eliminate sticking points which was always a problem for me at the 1/4 squat position (as you can see on my front squat), and finally it forces the stress on the glutes and hip muscles. I’ve always been quad dominant and feels this will help me go beyond my previous bests.
I’m not saying it’s the solution for everybody but this movement does feel right for me.
[quote]FredB4 wrote:
bruinsdmb wrote:
My beef with box squats is that if you are a powerlifter they really aren’t that useful. Something about sitting down with that much weight on my back just isn’t right. Many coaches and lifters have had success with them but many don’t use them at all. I don’t see how it is an explosive lift. Watching the video, I see a slow concentric. If someone can explain how that is explosive go ahead. Front squat forever.
Yes well what I meant is that you start with zero inertia, so it builds tremendous starting strength, secondly you have to accelerate from the bottom, then you need to produce maximum force in a rather short range of motion (and minimum time). That’s why it feels like an explosive movement to me despite the apparent speed of the bar.
Other big pluses are also that it helps eliminate sticking points which was always a problem for me at the 1/4 squat position (as you can see on my front squat), and finally it forces the stress on the glutes and hip muscles. I’ve always been quad dominant and feels this will help me go beyond my previous bests.
I’m not saying it’s the solution for everybody but this movement does feel right for me.[/quote]
along with this, just because it is slow doesn’t mean it is not explosive. If he is firing as hard as he can then the muscles don’t care how fast the weight is moving, they are moving it as fast as they can.
[quote]bruinsdmb wrote:
My beef with box squats is that if you are a powerlifter they really aren’t that useful. Something about sitting down with that much weight on my back just isn’t right. Many coaches and lifters have had success with them but many don’t use them at all. I don’t see how it is an explosive lift. Watching the video, I see a slow concentric. If someone can explain how that is explosive go ahead. Front squat forever.[/quote]
Front squat forever? For powerlifters? That doesn’t quite work…
And maybe you’ve known a couple powerlifters who haven’t had success with box squats, but if you look at the majority of the top powerlifting gyms now, I’m pretty sure they are ALL doing box squats.
Just an observation.
-MAtt
Looks like you’re overarching to compensate either for weakish glutes or lower back (probably back). Keep the spine neutral, don’t go nuts with the arch. I used to do the same thing and I’m paying for it now.
[quote]Matt McGorry wrote:
bruinsdmb wrote:
My beef with box squats is that if you are a powerlifter they really aren’t that useful. Something about sitting down with that much weight on my back just isn’t right. Many coaches and lifters have had success with them but many don’t use them at all. I don’t see how it is an explosive lift. Watching the video, I see a slow concentric. If someone can explain how that is explosive go ahead. Front squat forever.
Front squat forever? For powerlifters? That doesn’t quite work…
And maybe you’ve known a couple powerlifters who haven’t had success with box squats, but if you look at the majority of the top powerlifting gyms now, I’m pretty sure they are ALL doing box squats.
Just an observation.
-MAtt
[/quote]
My bad-typo on the first sentence-obviously for powerlifters they are useful, i meant they are probably not the best choice for the rest of the population, and regular athletes.
[quote]bruinsdmb wrote:
My bad-typo on the first sentence-obviously for powerlifters they are useful, i meant they are probably not the best choice for the rest of the population, and regular athletes.[/quote]
I’m no expert, but isn’t one of the biggest problems for the rest of the population and regular athletes (not elite ones) lack of strength in the posterior chain? Front squats are good, of course, but in further emphasizing the quads, these people are increasing their quad/ham imbalance.
The usual argument for front squats is that they are more “sport specific”, but that does not mean you cannot do more “general” strength exercises that don’t mimic the sport exactly but do strengthen the muscles needed in the sport.
[quote]bruinsdmb wrote:
what kind of sneakers are you wearing? Get some chucks or nike frees.[/quote]
These are two almost completely opposite shoes. Why would recommend complete opposites?
[quote]That One Guy wrote:
along with this, just because it is slow doesn’t mean it is not explosive. [/quote]
That’s not quite right. If that were the case, then every lift could be defined as explosive. For a lift to be explosive, you have to be moving it fast. This was not an explosive box squat. However, if he lightened the load and focused on speed, it would become an explosive lift.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
along with this, just because it is slow doesn’t mean it is not explosive.
That’s not quite right. If that were the case, then every lift could be defined as explosive. For a lift to be explosive, you have to be moving it fast. This was not an explosive box squat. However, if he lightened the load and focused on speed, it would become an explosive lift.[/quote]
Exactly what i meant. thanks.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
bruinsdmb wrote:
what kind of sneakers are you wearing? Get some chucks or nike frees.
These are two almost completely opposite shoes. Why would recommend complete opposites?[/quote]
They are both flat…did you read Cresseys latest article?
[quote]smallmike wrote:
bruinsdmb wrote:
My bad-typo on the first sentence-obviously for powerlifters they are useful, i meant they are probably not the best choice for the rest of the population, and regular athletes.
I’m no expert, but isn’t one of the biggest problems for the rest of the population and regular athletes (not elite ones) lack of strength in the posterior chain? Front squats are good, of course, but in further emphasizing the quads, these people are increasing their quad/ham imbalance.
The usual argument for front squats is that they are more “sport specific”, but that does not mean you cannot do more “general” strength exercises that don’t mimic the sport exactly but do strengthen the muscles needed in the sport.
[/quote]
Yes the quad/ham imbalance is a problem, but it is better corrected through assistance exercises like g/h raises, back ext, RDL’s etc.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
along with this, just because it is slow doesn’t mean it is not explosive.
That’s not quite right. If that were the case, then every lift could be defined as explosive. For a lift to be explosive, you have to be moving it fast. This was not an explosive box squat. However, if he lightened the load and focused on speed, it would become an explosive lift.[/quote]
Wrong, for a lift to be explosive you need to produce as much force as you can in the shortest amount of time (definition of power). The apparent speed of the bar has nothing to do with it.
Not every lifts are performed like this, actually the vast majority of all lifts done in a gym are performed with controlled tempo, so very seldomly will you call a lift explosive.
[quote]FredB4 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
along with this, just because it is slow doesn’t mean it is not explosive.
That’s not quite right. If that were the case, then every lift could be defined as explosive. For a lift to be explosive, you have to be moving it fast. This was not an explosive box squat. However, if he lightened the load and focused on speed, it would become an explosive lift.
Wrong, for a lift to be explosive you need to produce as much force as you can in the shortest amount of time (definition of power). The apparent speed of the bar has nothing to do with it.
Not every lifts are performed like this, actually the vast majority of all lifts done in a gym are performed with controlled tempo, so very seldomly will you call a lift explosive.
[/quote]
Power = Work/Time
or
Power = Force*velocity
Since you’re neither accomplishing a great amount of time nor shortening your muscle fibers quickly, a 1RM or other such “grinding” lift is NOT powerful in a literal sense.
The word explosive, however, has no formal definition in strength training, so knock yourself out with that one.
-Dan
[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
FredB4 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
along with this, just because it is slow doesn’t mean it is not explosive.
That’s not quite right. If that were the case, then every lift could be defined as explosive. For a lift to be explosive, you have to be moving it fast. This was not an explosive box squat. However, if he lightened the load and focused on speed, it would become an explosive lift.
Wrong, for a lift to be explosive you need to produce as much force as you can in the shortest amount of time (definition of power). The apparent speed of the bar has nothing to do with it.
Not every lifts are performed like this, actually the vast majority of all lifts done in a gym are performed with controlled tempo, so very seldomly will you call a lift explosive.
Power = Work/Time
or
Power = Force*velocity
Since you’re neither accomplishing a great amount of time nor shortening your muscle fibers quickly, a 1RM or other such “grinding” lift is NOT powerful in a literal sense.
The word explosive, however, has no formal definition in strength training, so knock yourself out with that one.
-Dan
[/quote]
“Since you’re neither accomplishing a great amount of time…” You mean short amount of time right. Anyways, it all depends how fast you’re able to perform that 1RM. It can be your most powerfull lift. ie a 1RM snatch, it would be much more powerful than an 80% snatch, despite the “slower” speed of action… That’s very literal though, as long as you attempt to produce maximum force in the shortest time possible, you will increase your power output at any given weight. Just by learning to explode with heavier loads, hence the explosive component. Don’t be so anal with the word explosive either. Everybody knows what it means.
I found that you need to keep your knees out more…your knees were pitching in quite a bit, and that can either be a flexibility problem in the groin or weak glutes/abductors.
You still OLifting much?
Nice to check out your videos and such. Sweet dunks.
check this guy out, a f0cking monster:
Not the best Clean or most explosive BUT WHAT A F0CKING JERK. that Jerk is SICKENING.
Koing
[quote]Dominator wrote:
I found that you need to keep your knees out more…your knees were pitching in quite a bit, and that can either be a flexibility problem in the groin or weak glutes/abductors.[/quote]
Yes in a perfect world your knees would stay out wide…on max weight for a lot of guys the knees come in.
This guys knee comes in quite a bit on his Clean recovery. I don’t see many guys Cleaning and Jerking 215Kg!
A lot of guys can do max Cleans without knees coming in not an inch though.
[quote]Koing wrote:
Dominator wrote:
I found that you need to keep your knees out more…your knees were pitching in quite a bit, and that can either be a flexibility problem in the groin or weak glutes/abductors.
Yes in a perfect world your knees would stay out wide…on max weight for a lot of guys the knees come in.
This guys knee comes in quite a bit on his Clean recovery. I don’t see many guys Cleaning and Jerking 215Kg!
A lot of guys can do max Cleans without knees coming in not an inch though.[/quote]
I don’t know about a lot guys having their knees coming in at max weights…I train with guys that lift between 600-900lbs on their box squat, and they’re able to keep their knees out all the time, so I’m not sure what the point was to show a guy coming out of the hole with 215Kg and his knees pitching in (that’s speed weight for a lot of guys I know). The problem has to do with weak glutes/abductors or a flexability issue in the groin, that was more or less of my point.
[quote]Dominator wrote:
Koing wrote:
Dominator wrote:
I found that you need to keep your knees out more…your knees were pitching in quite a bit, and that can either be a flexibility problem in the groin or weak glutes/abductors.
Yes in a perfect world your knees would stay out wide…on max weight for a lot of guys the knees come in.
This guys knee comes in quite a bit on his Clean recovery. I don’t see many guys Cleaning and Jerking 215Kg!
A lot of guys can do max Cleans without knees coming in not an inch though.
I don’t know about a lot guys having their knees coming in at max weights…I train with guys that lift between 600-900lbs on their box squat, and they’re able to keep their knees out all the time, so I’m not sure what the point was to show a guy coming out of the hole with 215Kg and his knees pitching in (that’s speed weight for a lot of guys I know). The problem has to do with weak glutes/abductors or a flexability issue in the groin, that was more or less of my point.
[/quote]
I’m saying on more max weight stuff form isn’t perfect. But yes in an ideal world it would be.
I’m sure very few of the 600-900lb box squat guys could Clean & Jerk 180Kg let alone 215Kg.
I’m just saying it is going to happen.