T Nation

Please Critique: Mufusa: Kelly: Reesh & Others

Alright, I need critiqued and comments from some of the more astute and you know who you are.
I am in a full blown keto for 30 days (give or take)and do not plan on carbing up (I have done my research here, so don’t chastise me particularly on this point)…I could get into why no carb-up, but having done this before and with my very strict approach, I think I should be okay–nonetheless, fire at will on this point.

The critiquing comes here: Upon completion and reaching my desired level of body fat (around 5 or 6%) I will carb up as normal (around twice diet calories) to replenish all and shift to anabolism (obviously). I plan on using some form of creatine as primarily a recovery agent and to supercompensate the muscle tissue following the extended diet keto as opposed to primarily an anabolic supplement. What creatine should I use per se...I have noticed Met-Rx sells some with ALA in it, so that might be a wise choice. Also I want something that is easy on the stomach, and is easily assimilated.

I have structured the carb up at the lowest possible percent body fat where muscle becomes increasingly made up of the caloric deficit (5%). I am ten days in and have structured calories at 2000-2300 from a maintenance of 3100-3150 approx. and am noticing progressive results. It is my gut feeling that doing this will prime everything for the anabolic shift (i did this before). Initial carb-up begins with 3-4 tablespoons of honey and a cup of frozen rasberries to slowly upregulate liver enzymes (also make sure insulin is repsponsive) and then hit it with high GI carbs for the first 7 hours, followed by the standard low GI the next, and then a phase-in to maintenance eating then lean gain.

Controlling for sodium percentage in diet (which i have done)…supercomp should give me around 5.6lbs…any other particularly helpful recovery agents anybody suggests in this mix?..Let me know

Vain

i would just use regular ol creatine powder. i would add a little with each carb meal and have five grams during and post workout. thats always worked good for me.

I think regular old creatine is fine. Don’t worry about getting all kinds of flavors and unique blends. I use AR Micronized Creatine and it works fine (and sells at a decent price). I think including ALA is a good idea, especially if you aren’t planning to carb-up over several weeks. I just bought some (180 caps, 300mg per cap) very cheap at nutriteam.com. By the way, I’m curious: Are you able to get a pump in your workouts with such low carbs? I’m currently keeping carbs under 100 while on Mag-10 and adding in cardio. For the most part, I do not have a pump at all. I tried a semi-carb-up day (two meals, plus post-workout) and it helped a little. However, the workout the next day was typical of the ones before the carb-up, so I doubt my glycogen stores were even close to full. Overall, though, I’m happy with my results so far. I’m down to 9.1% from 11.7% in about 3 weeks (about 10 days on Mag-10). I plan to try to get to 8.3% or so in the next four days, and then use Methoxy, M, and Tribex for two weeks after and hopefully get to 6%. If I look good, that’ll be it. If not, I’ll shoot for five. I’m thinking that between you, Jason N., and I, we ought to get a support group going here…

I know you said you dont want to hear it, but going on a keto diet that long isnt very healthy. I know this from experience. One time I went on a keto diet with no carb up for 45 days. I felt great except my bowel movements were horrible. Even though I took alot of metamucil regularly. When I started shitting a white mucus substance is when I decided to get off the diet.

Eric:
Kudos to you on your progress:
As to your questions and my thoughts here goes:
1)I find that pump (for me) is more due to extracelleuar water retention (i.e. subcuteneous) than it is from intracelleuar water retention (i.e., glycogen supercomp). Obviously when i carb up, I do get some “fullness” back but pump is more controlled i think by sodium and water underneath and around the skin as opposed to whats in the actual muscle. Either way, why worry about pump when cutting–you are catabolic as hell…i know it can play tricks with your head, but just wait to you rip up, and then carb-up and the honnies will definitely see the pump—that is the thing about cut phase…it plays tricks with your mind as to muscle loss–but remember, you got to give a little to get a little.

I basically use only Met-Rx Thermicore timed release–I am must say i believe the true key to cut is caloric balance (it is the key) and most people overlook this and so they supplement on this or that–Just keep detailed logs of food and calories in versus calories out and that is the difference.

Yes strength does diminish during cut for me, but it is not maximal strength gains, so as per what i believe, less volume, same intensity as lean gain period.

On other point…It is my contention that high intensity during cut “primes” your body to be anabolic as hell when you hit the refeed and lean gain. When you cut body fat real low, hunger is stimulate, your muscles are acutely sensitive to insulin (after such an extended keto) and as long as you keep regular (and varied) training the cut phase is what i believe to be a CRITICAL factor in how much you gain following it. In other words, i would venture to make a statement that in order to gain more effectively, you got to cut!
I have scientific reasons for this, but i won’t go into it here.

Definitely lets get a support group

Well said. The support group is a go.

Vain: Outstanding, and for three overriding reasons:

  1. You’ve structured a plan that is tailored to how YOUR body responds and not a “cookie-cutter” approach from one of the mags. I think that this point is often missed, and not just from Newbies. Theory is fine…but you have to translate that theory into the “real world” of your own body, and you’ve done that. My hat goes off to you!


    2)You’ve structured a detailed PLAN…let me say it again…A PLAN…that obviously requires monitoring. How many muscleheads have you seen complaining about results, when they don’t even know how many grams of particular macronutrients they are consuming? A plan. Monitor that plan. Adjust.


    3)You don’t “fear” Creatine. I think I’ll pull all my hair out when I read about another person saying “Creatine makes me smoothe”. (It sort of reminds me of the “ATT” commercial when the guy is talking to his mother on the phone about her feelings on a new dress she bought. She is stressed that the dress "makes her butt look big, to which her son responds “no, momma…your BIG BUTT makes your butt look big”…). No…Creatine doesn’t “make you smoothe”. The water influx it causes (thus making not only for “fuller” muscles and maximizing the functioning of the intra-cellular environment)is INTRA-cellular, not EXTRA-cellular. Smootheness come from 1)poor macronutrient and salt manipulation prior to a contest and/or event 2)Improper monitoring and 3)High rep, light weight training (coupled with increases in cardio) in some attempt to become “ripped”. As you indicated, a “ripped” condition is overwhelmingly dependent on careful diet manipulation and monitoring. As goldberg said, use any “plain” Creatine without additional carbs and “bells and whistles” and you should be fine.


    Something else I find odd (that you bought up). People will monitor their carb intake just fine DURING the diet phase, then STOP monitoring the amount when they begin to add back carbs. Big mistake.And that’s a MAJOR reason why a lot of people “smoothe out” and/or don’t reach their goals. (It looks like you’re paying attention to both phases).


    I have no criticism of the plan, EXCEPT that maybe you add the Disclaimer: “your individual plan may require you to make some adjustments”… but overall, your plan is excellent!

Get this, guys…no crap!


In one of the recent Mags (I forget which one), Chis Cormier blames his fifth place Olympia finish and smootheness on the fact that he “Ate pancakes that morning…”


Can 'ya believe he SAID that??? DAYUM! I guess pancakes don’t mix well with meth, coke, insulin, IGF-1, insulin, Androsol, D-Bol, DNP, Clomid, Synthroid, Furosemide (Lasix) and Nembutal…

Your plan sounds really good to me. Sounds like you’ve really done your research here. I’d recommend if you haven’t already you read all the stuff Lyle McDonald has written on the ketogenic diet. Also you might want to consider using some other insulin potentiating substances during your carb up…things like cinnamon, magnesium etc. have proven some efficacy here

Thanks guys for the advice.
Kelly, have read Lyle’s book front to back, and correspond with him and JB I would say pretty frequently, but like Mufusa said, things can be individual and this is where i decided to eliminate the carb-up (for various reasons) and not worry about catabolism.

Take this possibility all:

We know that intense dieting and stuff is catabolic as hell and that once you get below a certain threshold of body fat, lean mass is the primary contributor to weight loss…but, I look at it this way…intense dieting not only cuts you up (sure you are going to lose some lean mass) but it PRIMES you for the rebound of lean gain in many ways…here goes:

  1. we know reserach has suggested that the leaner you are the greater lean mass you can put on versus fat given a caloric excess.

  2. Intense dieting (a la keto with moderate to severe caloric restriction) can lower the metabolic rate–but this is not necessarily a bad thing…on the rebound, it would mean less calories to create the caloric excess and if you are eating clean, this makes it easier to add lean mass (*note eating clean)

  3. Diets a la keto prime the muscles for a rush of insulin and glucose once serious refeeding occurs…if you do it for extended periods, the shift back to carbs/glucose, if done cleanly, would seem to have a very powerful potential to create serious anabolism

  4. Dieting to very low levels of body fat stimulates hunger…I like to get to the point where it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain the caloric levels i set at start…this way once the damn breaks as they say, its all hell loose with foods you have put away for three months, and it becomes easier to a) eat more and b) eat more becuase of the restriction you have placed on those foods and their new found novelty.

I find that all of these factors (some psychological) are very important manipulators of lean gain in the absence of roids and other pro hormone supplements (of course good genetics helps!!!)…comments appreciated.
Vain