T Nation

Plazma Intra Workout & Fasted Training


#1

Hello coach - do you have any recommendations if we train fasted (maybe a few hours after waking up) and are 2A (or does neurotype influence this)?

Just got my recent plazma shipment. I know in the past I would eat paleo (+ fruit) first two meals, train w/ plazma, then carb “backload”.

however i can only train in morning now. If i take plazma during the workout, do I go into “carb zone” for the rest of the day? Should I follow up my meals with balance carbs, or still “back load carbs”.

Or should I fast (maybe some bcaa’s) and treat teh plazma as “non caloric” (even though has plenty of calories) but portioned strictly for workout?

I know mental performance wise, fasting + coffee is incredible…I’m not sure how training in morning + intraworkout will impact this rest of day?

Thank you for guidance


#2

Here’s what I do now.

I have to train at 4:30am between my kid’s 4am and 7am feedings.

I have PLAZMA pre/intra workout. Then MAG-10 when i get home (whey protein can also work) which is around 20min after the conclusion of my workouts. I have one solid meal around noon which is protein/fat (meat and veggies) and have my carbs in the evening (around 7-8pm). I will normally add 2 MAG-10 pulses in the afternoon.


#3

awesome awesome thanks so much. up at same time as you, getting the plazma & mag 10 ready!

its like a “pulse” fast 16/8 (first real meal protein/f veggies) then carbs at night to relax. really good for mental performance i bet.

physique/strength wise no problem with not doing too many carbs post workout? the alternative is having a huge noon meal (front loading carbs)…


#4

btw know you mentioned on thib army you were minimiznig plazma/mag10 due to blood pressure & carbs…using more the BCAA’s?

Interchangeable here??


#5

Based on your responses I have a question. I have white rice and sugar as my carb source around workouts. Based on this is sounds like I’d be better off carbing pre workout? Protein after? At the moment I’m eating 8 eggs for breakfast (730am) then training at 1230 and then have my rice post workout and eating my main meal of the day at dinner. Would you suggest any way to optimize this?


#6

I reintegrated it 3 weeks ago and my BP is under control


#7

Both pre-workout and intra-workout are when you should ingest carbs. Post workout carbohydrates have been shown to be less beneficial than once thought.


#8

Really? I only take carbs after training. Doesn’t not ingesting carbs before help mobilizing stored fat and lose weight?


#9

You are correct.

But this was a mental barrier for me for a long time. The addition of a small amount of carbs at the appropriate time can help maximise workout performance. After all, isn’t that our primary goal every time we go to the gym? Fat loss can de dealt with the rest of the time. I’ve been keto for a long time but I always use the targeted approach using carbs at strategic times to get the best of both worlds. Best thing I ever did.


#10

For me there is a distinct difference in MENTAL vs. PHYSICAL impacts of carb ingestion pre/peri.

Since I fast for a few hours prior to my first workout and usually on caffeine (brain candy or coffee), I the first calorie i intake has a HUGE impact on my mental state.

Fasting + coffee = very aggressive zoned in and focus. If you bolus carbs (at least for me), you will have a huge swing in blood sugar and lose drive. Can literally feel the serontoinin coming in and dopamine crash.

Thus…i cannot drink plazma 30 min - 1 hour prior to my workout. I can only sip it AFTER i’m in the gym and actually starting my bodyweight activation work.

Now physically…i know it takes at least 30 min for the nutrients to hit blood flow. MAYBE plazma can do this faster.

And since i do my activation/warmup for abougt 10 minutes…that leaves 20 minutes in which my first real training sets are done WITHOUT the nutrient in the muscles.

I know this is splitting hairs but i’ve monitored like every signal in my body the last decade. Whether this nuance has an actual impact on body composition i’m not sure


#11

I don’t think I ever worked out fasted. Some easy cardio sure. But I’m more of a night owl. I wake up between 8h30 and 10 and train usually at 6 pm. Sometimes I have to train at 9 or 10 and I can feel a good difference in energy.

Maybe I’ll try eating more carbs pre workout


#12

@aldebaran
@jcmcnorton
I believe CT has a macro breakdown (including timing) per neurotype, on his site. May be worth spending a few minutes locating your proper nutritional profile.


#13

I can’t link it but I just went to CT’s site and, although I know he has a series specifically on entire days macro breakdown, he did (EDIT: it’s not CT’s article but Stéphane Aubé) write an article titled “quick guide to peri-workout nutrition and supplements for each neurotype”. August 21, 2018.

@Sigil he describes your experiences to a T. So interesting.


#14

In the workout itself, yes, intheory. But studies have shown that over a 24h period, ingesting carbs pre-workout actually lead to a greater overall energy expenditure.

But it goes deeper than that.

When you are doing a “lifting” workout, fat will never be the primary fuel source (unless you are ona keto diet, in which case ketones can take over as the main fuel source). So who cares if ingesting carbs pre-workout decreases fat oxidation by a few grams??? It will not lead a signficant change in fat loss AT ALL.

Furthermore, the benefits of having the carbs pre-workout FAR outweight the potential drawbacks (if there were any).

  1. Having carbs pre-workout decrease cortisol production. The main role of cortisol during a training session is to mobilized stored glycogen to use for fuel. If you already have glucose in your blood stream while training you don’t need to mobilize as much, thus your cortisol release is lower.

  2. Pre-workout carbs increase mTOR activation from training. mTOR is the trigger that initiates protein synthesis, the more you activate it, the more protein synthesis you get. This obviously make it easier to build muscle.

  3. Pre-workout carbs preserve muscle glycogen. From an energy standpoint it will give you more fuel for your workout, allowing you to training harder and longer with less negative drawbacks, but if you keep your intramuscular glycogen stores high you will be more anabolic due to cell swelling that trigger pressure receptors on the muscle tissue, initiating protein synthesis and decrease protein breakdown.

4.Consuming carbs along with protein pre-workout will allow you to more easily send those nutrients inside the muscle you are training, during the session. Making it easier to repair and rebuild that muscle.

If you want to miss out all of that to burn MAYBE 10g of fat more in the session (and over 24h it won’t even be higher), be my guess. But IMHO that’s just dumb.


#15

Thank you. Sometimes it’s hard to figure it out because there are many sources. So i’m guessing the best times to have carbs are: the solid meals just before and after training, and the liquid meal just before/ during the session?


#16

Great point, CT. As mentioned, I fell into this trap once too often with the naysayers warning that even a few grams is enough to blunt the fat-burning effect of a workout. Probably being from a keto background doesn’t help because some proponents still maintain a carb-based pre-WO is not required. I know you experimented a bit with the TKD yourself during your keto episode. It has certainly been a game changer for me.


#17

Feels good to be back on Plazma. Amazing what it does for muscular pump and performance…you can keep going and going (never really hitting that “crash” which was all too pronounced in my previous fasted training & bcaas).

Must be the carbs helping.

Has anyone used Mag-10 when plazma ran out? Like double the scoops of mag-10?? Can that be effective…


#18

I’ve done it. Not the same pump-wise. But better than nothing