T Nation

Planning My Second Cycle


#1

Hi guys, new to the forum so I thought Id give you a quick summary.
I have just finished my 1st cycle which was,

Sus 250 750mg PW 1-12
NPP 300mg PW 1-10
I ran Anastrozole throughout 0.5mg EOD/E3D
I have 10 days left of PCT which was,
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 20/20/20/20

I also blasted 1000iu's EOD for 10 days after I dropped the NPP.
I ran Clen for the 1st two weeks of PCT as well to try and keep as much muscle as possible as I read its anti-catabolic in a calorific deficit didn't really mind the jitters and had taurine and potassium on hand as well. Slept fine also.

(My Kcals are now a little above maintenance until Im fully recovered) I didn't get any bloods done which I regret not doing for the obvious reasons, I didn't realise it was possible to get them done. I will be getting bloods before I start my second course.

I'm planning my next cycle to start towards the end of the year, Sept/Oct time and wanted to get some opinions on it.

Dbol tabs 40mg ED 1-4 and 12-16
Test prop 500mg PW 1-16
NPP 300mg PW 1-10
HCG 1000iu's PW 13-16
HCG 500iu's ED for 10 days after last pin.
PCT
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20
Clen 100mcg ED for 1st two weeks of PCT.

Does that look ok or do I need to tweak a few things? I know the prop is fast acting so the Dbol is not necessary to kick start the course but will I see more gains from this? Also is it good to put them at the end of the course as well to stop the gains slowing down or is this un-necessary also?
I donâ??t mind the fact Ive got to pin EOD as Ive done it before, so is it ok to just keep using prop throughout or should I run Test E at the same dose from the beginning with the Prop and drop the Prop after 4 weeks?

My diet is pretty clean all the time with the odd cheat meal here and there. I count my kcals/macro's in the percentage of about 45% carbs and protein, 10% Fat. (My fats are a little higher at the minute just to help with the hormones) I use the Katch-Mcardle method to figure out how much I should be eating.

My Stats:
22yo
6 foot
189lbs
15% Body fat

Thanks in advance!


#2

you’re 189lbs after that cycle?


#3

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
you’re 189lbs after that cycle?[/quote]

After the 1st cycle yes, I started at 170lbs. I havent done the second one yet.


#4

honestly, i guess i don’t understand the point of the second cycle… what’s your goal?

the total androgen level is actually lower than your first cycle. it’s still a decent amount, it’s just kinda odd.

to be fair, if you told me you were gonna cycle at 6’ and 170, i would’ve told you to learn how to eat and lift weights first.


#5

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
honestly, i guess i don’t understand the point of the second cycle… what’s your goal?

the total androgen level is actually lower than your first cycle. it’s still a decent amount, it’s just kinda odd.

to be fair, if you told me you were gonna cycle at 6’ and 170, i would’ve told you to learn how to eat and lift weights first.[/quote]

I realise it’s not as strong, I started out at 500mg of sus a week and was fine but when i went upto 750mg about half way through thats when I started to see some acne and bloating.
Also because of the 4 different type of test and their different esters I thought that having the same ester may help reduce the sides this time around.

Like I said in my 1st post this is my second cycle, so I want to use a different test just to see what I respond to better. I need to try different compounds out for myself as well as taking advice from other people, which is appreciated.
Sticking with the NPP because if ive done it before I should feel the same on it therefore being able to see how I am on the Prop.
Just my logic any way.

Well considering I was 140lbs 3 years ago i’d say I was doing alright, 30lbs in 3 years of training natty cant be to bad? Then 25lbs on my cycle and kept 19lbs. I know im not big, yet, but Im happy with the progress ive made so far and wanted to up my game. Like I said I diet according to my macros and the way I train seems to have been working, for the most part at least.


#6

[quote]Half_Natty wrote:

Well considering I was 140lbs 3 years ago i’d say I was doing alright, 30lbs in 3 years of training natty cant be to bad? [/quote]

Honestly? No that’s pretty bad. You were very underweight to start, so I would have expected that initial 30 lbs to be put on in the first year or less. As a natty. You really made the jump to steroids too early. I can guarantee you 99% of the posters on here would agree with that.


#7

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Half_Natty wrote:

Well considering I was 140lbs 3 years ago i’d say I was doing alright, 30lbs in 3 years of training natty cant be to bad? [/quote]

Honestly? No that’s pretty bad. You were very underweight to start, so I would have expected that initial 30 lbs to be put on in the first year or less. As a natty. You really made the jump to steroids too early. I can guarantee you 99% of the posters on here would agree with that.[/quote]

Thanks for the input…
Not sure how the smaller you are means the more weight you can put on faster works there though.
Granted I may have not been the optimal size to start AAS but whats done is done so theres not much else to be said for the matter really is there?

I was asking for advice on wether the cycle I have planned out was good and a few questions to go along with it, as I thought this is what the forum is for. To help people who lack knowledge, gain it, share experience and so on.
Advise and opinions are two very different things. You cant advise me on something I have already done. Im not saying I dont respect your opinion and yes maybe if Id heard it earlier I may have held out on taking them. But at least im not some 16 year old kid who’s going to do some serious damage.

I would appreciate some structured advice on my 1st original post thay I can put to good use, not to be berated by people that dont know me or my story.

I might be coming off as a bit of a douche here but so be it. This isnt really what I expected from something like this.
If I had come on here asking stupid questions then yes, slate me all you like. I really havent given you a reason to be so arsey.

Great welcome to the forum eh…


#8

Half_Natty, the feeling you expressed in your prior post has been a common thing among newbies, especially in the Steroids forum here, so let me let you in on a little secret:

When you post something on a forum, you open yourself to ALL of the replies. You don’t get just ask for sunshine and rainbows. You post a question, people chime in with their thoughts. If you don’t like what they have to say, you are free to ignore it, but if you plan on ignoring the advice you’re given…why bother posting in the first place?

(Apologies to forum regulars, as I’ve said this in a least half a dozen threads)

You, and many others, have this “gee, this forum sucks!” attitude just because people don’t blow sunshine up your ass when you ask for help on a steroid cycle. If you want attaboys and back slaps, find some bros at the gym to give you that. If you want actual advice - whether you LIKE that advice or not - listen to the smart guys here instead of complaining that they won’t tell you what you want to hear.


#9

[quote]Half_Natty wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
honestly, i guess i don’t understand the point of the second cycle… what’s your goal?

the total androgen level is actually lower than your first cycle. it’s still a decent amount, it’s just kinda odd.

to be fair, if you told me you were gonna cycle at 6’ and 170, i would’ve told you to learn how to eat and lift weights first.[/quote]

I realise it’s not as strong, I started out at 500mg of sus a week and was fine but when i went upto 750mg about half way through thats when I started to see some acne and bloating.
Also because of the 4 different type of test and their different esters I thought that having the same ester may help reduce the sides this time around.

Like I said in my 1st post this is my second cycle, so I want to use a different test just to see what I respond to better. I need to try different compounds out for myself as well as taking advice from other people, which is appreciated.
Sticking with the NPP because if ive done it before I should feel the same on it therefore being able to see how I am on the Prop.
Just my logic any way.

Well considering I was 140lbs 3 years ago i’d say I was doing alright, 30lbs in 3 years of training natty cant be to bad? Then 25lbs on my cycle and kept 19lbs. I know im not big, yet, but Im happy with the progress ive made so far and wanted to up my game. Like I said I diet according to my macros and the way I train seems to have been working, for the most part at least.[/quote]

i gained about 70 lbs of LBM in the same amount of time, at 6’1" and natural.

do us all a favor and post your diet and training regimen…


#10

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
Half_Natty, the feeling you expressed in your prior post has been a common thing among newbies, especially in the Steroids forum here, so let me let you in on a little secret:

When you post something on a forum, you open yourself to ALL of the replies. You don’t get just ask for sunshine and rainbows. You post a question, people chime in with their thoughts. If you don’t like what they have to say, you are free to ignore it, but if you plan on ignoring the advice you’re given…why bother posting in the first place?

(Apologies to forum regulars, as I’ve said this in a least half a dozen threads)

You, and many others, have this “gee, this forum sucks!” attitude just because people don’t blow sunshine up your ass when you ask for help on a steroid cycle. If you want attaboys and back slaps, find some bros at the gym to give you that. If you want actual advice - whether you LIKE that advice or not - listen to the smart guys here instead of complaining that they won’t tell you what you want to hear.
[/quote]

Advice? What advice? Please point out where there has been a sred of advice! Telling me i have started on AAS to early isnt advice if ive already done it! Apart from that theres nothing.

I dont need sunshine blowing up my ass, i need information.
I dont mind people ‘chiming in’ with their thoughts at all, but when what they are saying has nothing to do with my current situation or the post itself, then yes Im gonna be annoyed.

Jesus somebody mus actually have advice on the actual cycle.

So far we’ve gathered that i started AAS to early.
And 10lbs a year after beating an eating disorder is not good either.

Anybody else?


#11

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Half_Natty wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
honestly, i guess i don’t understand the point of the second cycle… what’s your goal?

the total androgen level is actually lower than your first cycle. it’s still a decent amount, it’s just kinda odd.

to be fair, if you told me you were gonna cycle at 6’ and 170, i would’ve told you to learn how to eat and lift weights first.[/quote]

I realise it’s not as strong, I started out at 500mg of sus a week and was fine but when i went upto 750mg about half way through thats when I started to see some acne and bloating.
Also because of the 4 different type of test and their different esters I thought that having the same ester may help reduce the sides this time around.

Like I said in my 1st post this is my second cycle, so I want to use a different test just to see what I respond to better. I need to try different compounds out for myself as well as taking advice from other people, which is appreciated.
Sticking with the NPP because if ive done it before I should feel the same on it therefore being able to see how I am on the Prop.
Just my logic any way.

Well considering I was 140lbs 3 years ago i’d say I was doing alright, 30lbs in 3 years of training natty cant be to bad? Then 25lbs on my cycle and kept 19lbs. I know im not big, yet, but Im happy with the progress ive made so far and wanted to up my game. Like I said I diet according to my macros and the way I train seems to have been working, for the most part at least.[/quote]

i gained about 70 lbs of LBM in the same amount of time, at 6’1" and natural.

do us all a favor and post your diet and training regimen…[/quote]

So thats like a little over 2lbs a week then. definitly not a lean bulk. I bet at least half was fat so looks like we’ve done about the same there eh!

Yeah put my diet and training up for that to be ridiculed as well.
What im doing works.


#12

[quote]Half_Natty wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Half_Natty wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
honestly, i guess i don’t understand the point of the second cycle… what’s your goal?

the total androgen level is actually lower than your first cycle. it’s still a decent amount, it’s just kinda odd.

to be fair, if you told me you were gonna cycle at 6’ and 170, i would’ve told you to learn how to eat and lift weights first.[/quote]

I realise it’s not as strong, I started out at 500mg of sus a week and was fine but when i went upto 750mg about half way through thats when I started to see some acne and bloating.
Also because of the 4 different type of test and their different esters I thought that having the same ester may help reduce the sides this time around.

Like I said in my 1st post this is my second cycle, so I want to use a different test just to see what I respond to better. I need to try different compounds out for myself as well as taking advice from other people, which is appreciated.
Sticking with the NPP because if ive done it before I should feel the same on it therefore being able to see how I am on the Prop.
Just my logic any way.

Well considering I was 140lbs 3 years ago i’d say I was doing alright, 30lbs in 3 years of training natty cant be to bad? Then 25lbs on my cycle and kept 19lbs. I know im not big, yet, but Im happy with the progress ive made so far and wanted to up my game. Like I said I diet according to my macros and the way I train seems to have been working, for the most part at least.[/quote]

i gained about 70 lbs of LBM in the same amount of time, at 6’1" and natural.

do us all a favor and post your diet and training regimen…[/quote]

So thats like a little over 2lbs a week then. definitly not a lean bulk. I bet at least half was fat so looks like we’ve done about the same there eh!

Yeah put my diet and training up for that to be ridiculed as well.
What im doing works.
[/quote]

This is why you should not be doing drugs.


#13

[quote]Half_Natty wrote:

What im doing works.
[/quote]

We will have to agree to disagree on this point, as I believe your results say otherwise.

As to what I said earlier in this thread that you took issue to, I realize it didn’t address your initial question, but it did directly address a question you later posed, which was essentially ‘my results aren’t bad, right?’ I answered that question in the most honest way I could. Why ask the question if you won’t consider you may be wrong about the answer?

But here we are. You want advice. My advice would be to discontinue your use of steroids, not forever, but at least for awhile, until you really understand what it means to dial in your training and diet. I can assure you that you will be best served by doing this. It will be very difficult in the long run to do this if you don’t handle it early. You’ll be more likely to simply up the dose of steroids to compensate for a lack of discipline and knowledge in training and diet. Because that’s easier. This can work for awhile, but at the end of the day, over-reliance on drugs will take it’s toll.

The people in this forum do care about people like you and anybody who happens to come across threads like this in the future. That’s why you don’t always get the answers you want to hear. There’s much more collective knowledge and experience on this forum than you seem to give credit for.


#14

[quote]Half_Natty wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Half_Natty wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
honestly, i guess i don’t understand the point of the second cycle… what’s your goal?

the total androgen level is actually lower than your first cycle. it’s still a decent amount, it’s just kinda odd.

to be fair, if you told me you were gonna cycle at 6’ and 170, i would’ve told you to learn how to eat and lift weights first.[/quote]

I realise it’s not as strong, I started out at 500mg of sus a week and was fine but when i went upto 750mg about half way through thats when I started to see some acne and bloating.
Also because of the 4 different type of test and their different esters I thought that having the same ester may help reduce the sides this time around.

Like I said in my 1st post this is my second cycle, so I want to use a different test just to see what I respond to better. I need to try different compounds out for myself as well as taking advice from other people, which is appreciated.
Sticking with the NPP because if ive done it before I should feel the same on it therefore being able to see how I am on the Prop.
Just my logic any way.

Well considering I was 140lbs 3 years ago i’d say I was doing alright, 30lbs in 3 years of training natty cant be to bad? Then 25lbs on my cycle and kept 19lbs. I know im not big, yet, but Im happy with the progress ive made so far and wanted to up my game. Like I said I diet according to my macros and the way I train seems to have been working, for the most part at least.[/quote]

i gained about 70 lbs of LBM in the same amount of time, at 6’1" and natural.

do us all a favor and post your diet and training regimen…[/quote]

So thats like a little over 2lbs a week then. definitly not a lean bulk. I bet at least half was fat so looks like we’ve done about the same there eh!

Yeah put my diet and training up for that to be ridiculed as well.
What im doing works.
[/quote]

70 lbs in 3 years? no, that’s like half a pound a week.

seriously, i want to know what your training and diet is.

if you don’t wanna post it, that’s fine. but i have no interest in helping someone who isn’t training/eating in a manner that will set them up for success. you think what you’re doing works, but at 6’00 at 189 lbs (post cycle, no less) you’re still slim. if you’re afraid to post your regimen, then i suspect you know you’re doing something wrong, and you’re hoping the drugs will fix your issue.

here’s the other thing: none of us are paid to do this. we give advice the best we can, based off our experience and scientific evidence. if we “demand” that the user is worthy of the advice, then i have to say, that’s the price to pay.

^nobody here wishes negative effects for anyone else, and since there is no accountability for bad advice on the internet, we also hope that the user has already set themselves up for success.