T Nation

Planned Parenthood Declares War on Science

So people post videos of the tea Party saying dodgy stuff, oh no that’s the liberal media not truely representative of the noble ideals of the tea party! Oh no they were planted by the Evil Democrats!

And then someone publishes this and suddenly it’s symptomatic of all liberals according to some posters!

Fucking pathetic.

Oh Makkun I’m aware of CiF’s failings I just like to wind up the labour party trolls from time to time

[quote]Bambi wrote:
So people post videos of the tea Party saying dodgy stuff, oh no that’s the liberal media not truely representative of the noble ideals of the tea party! Oh no they were planted by the Evil Democrats!

And then someone publishes this and suddenly it’s symptomatic of all liberals according to some posters!

Fucking pathetic.

Oh Makkun I’m aware of CiF’s failings I just like to wind up the labour party trolls from time to time

[/quote]

You sound like a stuck pig, did you forget to take out your tampon.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[…]

in action…meaning their actions. I don’t have to have proof to tell you that you can get contraceptives and abortions at Planned Parenthood. That they give money to embryonic stem cell research which has yet to come up with one cure for anything, while adult stem cell research has racked up a total of 47 cures. Plus, I don’t usually carry a camera around to document what I’ve been seeing for the past few years, but here look at the exhibit for yourself:

http://jfaweb.org/exhibit.html

Dare you to take a look through the entire exhibit.[/quote]

So, let me summarise: no evidence in support on to what was posted at the start of the thread; i.e. no evidence of IPPF official involvement/endorsement with regards to the video clip posted. Yet, no evidence needed, all those evils are evidenced by all the stuff you see they’ve done and are doing. Fair enough. While I can’t assess the personal experience - I find the lack of evidence posted in a thread regarding their alleged views without a bit of an analysis of what they actually say, while at the same time demonising ‘liberals’ for their alleged ignorance of facts … inconsistent.

That is then followed up by yet another link to a non-IPPF site - now with some neat attempt at eliciting an emotional or moral reaction. Let’s be clear - we’re not discussing IPPF and their policies (and their consequences) here - the lack of an official IPPF position in the thread is indicative of this. We’re discussing an utter lack of evidence to support a claim in which the main issue is the irrationality of an alleged position. Yet, it seems to be enough to get people to get excited, angry and righteous in their indignation. That’s what makes this thread so moronic.

Makkun

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
So people post videos of the tea Party saying dodgy stuff, oh no that’s the liberal media not truely representative of the noble ideals of the tea party! Oh no they were planted by the Evil Democrats!

And then someone publishes this and suddenly it’s symptomatic of all liberals according to some posters!

Fucking pathetic.

Oh Makkun I’m aware of CiF’s failings I just like to wind up the labour party trolls from time to time

[/quote]

You sound like a stuck pig, did you forget to take out your tampon.[/quote]

Nice so I point out that irrationality to believe in things that are not proven and hearsay is not an exclusively liberal concept and I have a tin foil hat and I point out selective blindness within this forum and I am a stuck pig.

That punchline writes itself

Earlier this week embarrassing videos were uploaded to YouTube showing extreme ignorance of human biology by members of the Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains student group Advocates for Choice.

from

http://www.jillstanek.com/2010/10/planned-parenthood-tries-to-get-youtube-to-pull-embarrassing-bloopers-videos/

so it appears they are members of a student group for planned parenthood.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Earlier this week embarrassing videos were uploaded to YouTube showing extreme ignorance of human biology by members of the Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains student group Advocates for Choice.

from

http://www.jillstanek.com/2010/10/planned-parenthood-tries-to-get-youtube-to-pull-embarrassing-bloopers-videos/

so it appears they are members of a student group for planned parenthood.[/quote]

Thank you - finally someone who actually adds some evidence people can scrutinise and assess.

One comment wrt to the people attending (right at the start of the interview) - no one official from IPPF.

Makkun

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
http://jfaweb.org/exhibit.html

Dare you to take a look through the entire exhibit.[/quote]

Couldn’t. It’s no less revolting than photos you’ll see of mass graves. Yeah, we’re the enlightened age alright.

[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
There is no evedence of life or no life. Am I dead or alive, I have no idea. I heard both of ny son’s heartbeat around 5 weeks. It must be nice to be a liberal, so when you are confronted with facts you just say there is no eveidence.
[/quote]

I’ve noticed this kind of perverted and retarded logic from many people here. This. has. got. to. stop.

By definition, a liberal is someone who is open to new behavior or opinions in spite of traditional values or beliefs. A conservative on the other hand holds to traditional values/beliefs regardless of new information. Therefore, according to these definitions if a self proclaimed liberal is not open minded to new information and is not willing to change their opinions then they can’t be a liberal. In truth, they actually fit the conservative mold. You’re making fun of your own kind.

Congratulations, you’ve just been mind fucked.

[quote]makkun wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Earlier this week embarrassing videos were uploaded to YouTube showing extreme ignorance of human biology by members of the Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains student group Advocates for Choice.

from

http://www.jillstanek.com/2010/10/planned-parenthood-tries-to-get-youtube-to-pull-embarrassing-bloopers-videos/

so it appears they are members of a student group for planned parenthood.[/quote]

Thank you - finally someone who actually adds some evidence people can scrutinise and assess.

One comment wrt to the people attending (right at the start of the interview) - no one official from IPPF.

Makkun[/quote]

There is no need to try to distort facts, or make something out of nothing, this kind of talk at a school of this caliber does not surprise me in the least.

a majority of people just don’t care anymore. They don’t care to better themselves, to seek facts and truth.
oh well, the most you can do is be the best you can.

[quote]makkun wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[…]

in action…meaning their actions. I don’t have to have proof to tell you that you can get contraceptives and abortions at Planned Parenthood. That they give money to embryonic stem cell research which has yet to come up with one cure for anything, while adult stem cell research has racked up a total of 47 cures. Plus, I don’t usually carry a camera around to document what I’ve been seeing for the past few years, but here look at the exhibit for yourself:

http://jfaweb.org/exhibit.html

Dare you to take a look through the entire exhibit.[/quote]

So, let me summarise: no evidence in support on to what was posted at the start of the thread; i.e. no evidence of IPPF official involvement/endorsement with regards to the video clip posted. Yet, no evidence needed, all those evils are evidenced by all the stuff you see they’ve done and are doing. Fair enough. While I can’t assess the personal experience - I find the lack of evidence posted in a thread regarding their alleged views without a bit of an analysis of what they actually say, while at the same time demonising ‘liberals’ for their alleged ignorance of facts … inconsistent.

That is then followed up by yet another link to a non-IPPF site - now with some neat attempt at eliciting an emotional or moral reaction. Let’s be clear - we’re not discussing IPPF and their policies (and their consequences) here - the lack of an official IPPF position in the thread is indicative of this. We’re discussing an utter lack of evidence to support a claim in which the main issue is the irrationality of an alleged position. Yet, it seems to be enough to get people to get excited, angry and righteous in their indignation. That’s what makes this thread so moronic.

Makkun[/quote]

Mak…you’re arguing against a straw man. I never said IPPF was officially involved in this event. So, you can take your argument somewhere else. And, I ask – show me where I said this. I watched the full video, I wish I would have ripped the video before YouTube took it down. I suppose you don’t find it consistent because only empirical evidence can prove something, right?

I gave a personal anecdote about what I have dealt with. I never said these people were PP, I said these people express verbally what PP does, PP deals with abortions, birth control, embryonic stem cell research. Why would I have to prove IPPF was official involved in this event, when I never said they were? Even though there is empirical evidence (of course you won’t find the studies and evidence I am talking about on a IPPF site, they won’t post science against themselves) that shows the harm in all those things. And, sure what’s wrong with soliciting an emotional reaction to an injustice? I’m guessing you didn’t look at the exhibit, that is fine. It is a wretched thing, but hey. It’s empirical evidence, that is what abortion is, those studies are evidence of what happens when you get an abortion, &c.

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
So people post videos of the tea Party saying dodgy stuff, oh no that’s the liberal media not truely representative of the noble ideals of the tea party! Oh no they were planted by the Evil Democrats!

And then someone publishes this and suddenly it’s symptomatic of all liberals according to some posters!

Fucking pathetic.

Oh Makkun I’m aware of CiF’s failings I just like to wind up the labour party trolls from time to time

[/quote]

You sound like a stuck pig, did you forget to take out your tampon.[/quote]

Nice so I point out that irrationality to believe in things that are not proven and hearsay is not an exclusively liberal concept and I have a tin foil hat and I point out selective blindness within this forum and I am a stuck pig.

That punchline writes itself[/quote]

No, you just pull the it’s not fair card. You can post all the shit you won’t about the Tea Party, I’m not part of it. I just find it funny you’re so huffy and puffy about a video making fun of libs/progs. Thought you were the cool collective crowd that this didn’t phase.

So, right, going through the video now. A few observations - I got my planned parenthood organisations mixed up. It’s Planned Parenthood US, not IPPF we’re talking about. My mistake.

With regards to the people and video - there seems to be some debate on the legitimacy of the clip being posted. I can only comment from our data protection laws here, but if the (named and clearly identifiable) individuals have not all given their consent, then it is not allowed to post this. Which is probably why this has been pulled on YouTube.

Listening to the debate - in principle, all points so far strike me a relatively sanely presented (from both sides btw). That includes the incendiary ones which I think have been taken out of context as part of selective editing. I find that the short clip absolutely puts the quotes out of context. But hey, there’s hope - I’m just moving from the speakers to the public questions section…

In summary: a student debate (with its typical ups and downs) on an state constitutional amendment, filmed and distributed (possibly in breach of privacy rights / and or campus regulations) with a generally sane-ish tone on a very controversial issue. I have not seen or heard any statement which actually supports the thread’s assumption that Planned Parenthood declared ‘war on science’. The clips posted initially certainly put an spin on the debate which takes it off its original course and to me seems to be a misrepresentation. Which makes me question the motives of the editors - but that would lead too far from the original thread.

Makkun

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[…] Mak…you’re arguing against a straw man. I never said IPPF was officially involved in this event. So, you can take your argument somewhere else. And, I ask – show me where I said this. I watched the full video, I wish I would have ripped the video before YouTube took it down. I suppose you don’t find it consistent because only empirical evidence can prove something, right?

I gave a personal anecdote about what I have dealt with. I never said these people were PP, I said these people express verbally what PP does, PP deals with abortions, birth control, embryonic stem cell research. Why would I have to prove IPPF was official involved in this event, when I never said they were? Even though there is empirical evidence (of course you won’t find the studies and evidence I am talking about on a IPPF site, they won’t post science against themselves) that shows the harm in all those things. And, sure what’s wrong with soliciting an emotional reaction to an injustice? I’m guessing you didn’t look at the exhibit, that is fine. It is a wretched thing, but hey. It’s empirical evidence, that is what abortion is, those studies are evidence of what happens when you get an abortion, &c.
[/quote]

I understand your moral involvement, and I respect the emotional response it triggers. Yet, upon watching the full video apbt posted (I watched until about minute 90), I basically see two sides of the political spectrum of student politics argue each other. Both sides offering sane as well as less sane points. What worries me is the apparent speed with which stuff like this is edited, spun and then published. There is too much of that, and it hurts the rightful arguments wielded. I have no interest in getting into internal US politics which this obviously is part of - and no real interest in discussing abortion. I think the thread wasn’t well thought out, and I found the reaction and conclusions based on such little (and upon watching the damn thing pretty much no) evidence problematic. I still do. I try not to stereotype all conservatives based upon the behaviour of the biggest morons among them - neither do I expect it to be done to so called liberals.

Makkun

[quote]makkun wrote:
I try not to stereotype all conservatives based upon the behaviour of the biggest morons among them - neither do I expect it to be done to so called liberals.

Makkun[/quote]

I have to say that this is but one of the reasons that you’ve always had my respect. That and you are one smart son of gun.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]makkun wrote:
I try not to stereotype all conservatives based upon the behaviour of the biggest morons among them - neither do I expect it to be done to so called liberals.

Makkun[/quote]

I have to say that this is but one of the reasons that you’ve always had my respect. That and you are one smart son of gun.

[/quote]

I love you too, ZEB. In a very platonic way of course. :wink:

Makkun

[quote]makkun wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]makkun wrote:
I try not to stereotype all conservatives based upon the behaviour of the biggest morons among them - neither do I expect it to be done to so called liberals.

Makkun[/quote]

I have to say that this is but one of the reasons that you’ve always had my respect. That and you are one smart son of gun.

[/quote]

I love you too, ZEB. In a very platonic way of course. :wink:

Makkun[/quote]

This just went virally gay. Good job, guys. Ugh. :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]makkun wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[…] Mak…you’re arguing against a straw man. I never said IPPF was officially involved in this event. So, you can take your argument somewhere else. And, I ask – show me where I said this. I watched the full video, I wish I would have ripped the video before YouTube took it down. I suppose you don’t find it consistent because only empirical evidence can prove something, right?

I gave a personal anecdote about what I have dealt with. I never said these people were PP, I said these people express verbally what PP does, PP deals with abortions, birth control, embryonic stem cell research. Why would I have to prove IPPF was official involved in this event, when I never said they were? Even though there is empirical evidence (of course you won’t find the studies and evidence I am talking about on a IPPF site, they won’t post science against themselves) that shows the harm in all those things. And, sure what’s wrong with soliciting an emotional reaction to an injustice? I’m guessing you didn’t look at the exhibit, that is fine. It is a wretched thing, but hey. It’s empirical evidence, that is what abortion is, those studies are evidence of what happens when you get an abortion, &c.
[/quote]

I understand your moral involvement, and I respect the emotional response it triggers. Yet, upon watching the full video apbt posted (I watched until about minute 90), I basically see two sides of the political spectrum of student politics argue each other. Both sides offering sane as well as less sane points. What worries me is the apparent speed with which stuff like this is edited, spun and then published. There is too much of that, and it hurts the rightful arguments wielded. I have no interest in getting into internal US politics which this obviously is part of - and no real interest in discussing abortion. I think the thread wasn’t well thought out, and I found the reaction and conclusions based on such little (and upon watching the damn thing pretty much no) evidence problematic. I still do. I try not to stereotype all conservatives based upon the behaviour of the biggest morons among them - neither do I expect it to be done to so called liberals.

Makkun[/quote]

The title of this thread isn’t really connected, just thought it was eye catching. It wasn’t supposed to be a serious thread anyway, just making fun of progressives. And, I’ve heard similar comments (usually foul-ups) from people who have debated me. Thought it was humourous.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[…] This just went virally gay. Good job, guys. Ugh. :p[/quote]

Just read it as agape if that makes you feel better. :wink:

Makkun

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[…] The title of this thread isn’t really connected, just thought it was eye catching. It wasn’t supposed to be a serious thread anyway, just making fun of progressives. And, I’ve heard similar comments (usually foul-ups) from people who have debated me. Thought it was humourous.[/quote]

Making fun of us liberals is perfectly fine - works well both ways and a good joke is pretty much always worth it. Yet, with all due respect, I personally find abortion a very serious topic and therefore a tricky subject for making public fun.

Makkun

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

[quote]SUPER-T wrote:
There is no evedence of life or no life. Am I dead or alive, I have no idea. I heard both of ny son’s heartbeat around 5 weeks. It must be nice to be a liberal, so when you are confronted with facts you just say there is no eveidence.
[/quote]

I’ve noticed this kind of perverted and retarded logic from many people here. This. has. got. to. stop.

By definition, a liberal is someone who is open to new behavior or opinions in spite of traditional values or beliefs. A conservative on the other hand holds to traditional values/beliefs regardless of new information. Therefore, according to these definitions if a self proclaimed liberal is not open minded to new information and is not willing to change their opinions then they can’t be a liberal. In truth, they actually fit the conservative mold. You’re making fun of your own kind.

Congratulations, you’ve just been mind fucked.[/quote]

How am I making fun of my own kind? This retarded girl says there is no evidence of life or no life, and you say that she is being open minded. It is a known fact that a the heart starts beating between 4-6 weeks. She says a doctor says 24. If you are ok with killing babies that’s on you, but a baby is not just a bunch of cells that theese libs claim. These are the same people who call the millitary murdurers.