T Nation



Hoping for some of your valued input here- i posted a while back with my first batch of questions - here is a cut and paste with some background--.OK,my first and only cycle was 10yrs ago and i was running Dbol and Oma250..came off with hcg and over all was pretty happy with the results..Just turned 40 and ive got the itch again to take one last run at this. right now im in good shape and train mostly for strength at 5'8.5 and 215lbs, 18inch arms, 350 bench (420 pr) and about 50in chest..looking pretty good everywhere but im starting to hold some weight on the sides- not much, but its there..

ok- after some thought, reading lots of posts, and looking at some other advice, i think ive come up with a workable plan-

wk 1-4 Dbol 30 mgs per day
wk 1-10 Test E 500 per wk- didnt want to go this high but all indications are its needed.
wk 5-10 Var 50mg per day..i have enough for 6 wks so maybe run the 1st week at 100mgs
wk 12 starts Nolva i think at 40/20/20/20

Will have adex on hand, just in case..or should i run it all the way through? Was also thinking of running ECA instead of my usual caffeine.

Other supps ( otc ) I've got laying around;

Liv 52
Beverly BCAA
Universal Liver - i was anemic as a kid- these seem to perk me up..
Beverly Liver
Results - its a creapure, HMB, beta a product
Multi Vit
Saw Pimento
7 lbs Protein from True Protein.

Diet wise- I'm just gonna try to eat clean, watch the sodium, and shoot for 300-350gms protein per day. I'm sitting at a low 215 lbs right now and would like to hit 230 lbs and keep a fair amount of size and strength.


10 weeks of oral steroids is in no way a good idea. I dont care how mild Var is. It is still going through the liver two times. 10 weeks of that is an unnecessary risk, IMO.


drop the D? just run the test and the var? in which case id run that for week 6 weeks.


6 weeks is the max I would use an oral steroid.

Dbol and Var are very different steroids (class and results they elicit). Pick the one that best suits your goals and dose it accordingly.


Well- considering the bloat andn gains from the D is transient at best, i'd say 6 weeks of Var..Also considering the sides and my age id say Var would be a better choice.

everything else look in line?

btw, thanks for the input!


I'd be tempted to stack 50mg var and 30mg dbol for the 6 weeks.. shame you dont have tren, this would be best IMO.



I would make the following changes:

W:1-4 Dbol 3 x 10mg/d

W1-10: Test E 500mg/w (All through cycle: 250mg 2x/w Mon morning/Thurs evening)
Front load 600mg test e on day 1 only

W1-4: Adex 0.5mg/d (to counter dbol & test e aromatization)
W5-10: Adex 0.25mg/d (to counter lighter aromatization of test e alone & var doesn't aromatize)

W7-12: Var 50mg per day (this way you get 2 weeks to clear liver of dbol effects and increased effectiveness of 2 waiting weeks before PCT since var's short half life enables you to start PCT the day after last dose)

W13-16: Nolva 40/40/20/20 (You had PCT starting at W12, that would have only allowed for 1 week for test e level to fall adequately, when 2 weeks are needed)


At 500mg of test you really should run an AI throughout. Really Really.


IME - there is little need to frontload for a 10 week cycle, gains will stagnate by the 10th week without a frontload in my experience, let alone with a frontload.
Either run 8 weeks frontloaded, or 10 weeks 'straight' dosed.


thanks for all the input guys...my adex should be here this week so i have a little more time to look into things..i really like dynamo's suggestion but bone has my a little worried on the liver issues with the orals..


out of curiosity why are u running a mass gainer like dbol and then a cutting agent like var? i always thought bulking and cutting cycles should be seperate. why not just run the test and then run the var for the last 4 weeks? youll get all the cutting and muscle hardness you want without having to deal with losing the bloat you gained in the beginning.


There is little between supposed 'bulking' and 'cutting' cycles.. the difference is usually only the amount of estrogen in the cycle.

Adding Var to Dbol will increase anabolism with no increase in Estrogen, it will increase strength too with little increase in Androgenicity(?).


Good question- the original plan was for just the test @250 per wk and the Var for 6 weeks..the var was late getting to me, so my buddy, who felt bad i missed my original start date, gave me the D to hold me over knowing ive taken it in the past..basically, at this point, the dbol is to jump start the test..the var is in there because im more of a power lifter than a bodybuilder and i've always wanted to see what kind of strength boost i'd get from it. and its low on sides and i can take what little fat i have off with the help of diet and the V together.


i know a lot of people on here always says that at least 500 mg test is always necessary. I dont like that much, 200mg week seems just fine with other androgens added in.


i should be more clear- i type fast- any ' cutting ' i get from the var/ diet combo is a bonus..I'm using it for the reasons Brook posted.

as for the T dose- i was very conflicted about it for a while, mostly due to my age..some close friends who are about my age, long term users, and compete at high levels of power lifting and highland games were suggesting a low dose run throughout..250 once a week. combined with low does dbol and a finisher with the var with it's low andrigenicity ( brooks word, lol ) we figured good, if not outstanding, gains, low sides, more permanent results. after reading a lot here and few other places I'm leaning towards if you are gonna do it, DO it. the other thing is i don't plan on ever doing another cycle..its been 10 yrs and i can go that long again till I'm up for replacement therapy..so whatever i get from this i wanna keep. 400/500 seems to be the way to go.


I think Anavar is a great sporting drug...for competitive sporty type sports - ESPECIALLY individual sports.

The playing field is usually very even and the addition of a compound that gives a slight edge with no serious sides like Oxandrolone is a very useful thing indeed.. and clears relatively fast too.