T Nation

Pip & Test Flu, Does the Dose Make the Poison?

The guys on here who are cooking their own . . . what’s your view on the causes of bad Pip / Test flu ?

I’ve been considering the following . . .

Microbial infection . . . this seems possible for test flu rather than pip, but i don’t see how any substantial infection could survive the heating stage whilst dissolving the powder. Nor does the resultant solution offer much opportunity for infection to thrive.

Alcohol content . . . this seems to get the blame on some forums, with people saying no more than 5%, but i’ve seen photos of pharma injectables with 10% so i think these claims are doubtfull.

Excipient . . . benzyl benzoate for instance, i’ve seen a pharma label indicating 40% benzyl benzoate, so again, if the pharma uses this high conc, they’re not worried here either.

Carrier Oil . . . pharma companies often don’t even specify this here. We know they use grape oil, sesame oil, peanut oil, fairly at random . . . if the companies don’t think its significant should we break sweat over this ?

Steroid Concentration . . . this is the one area where there is some consistency with the legit pharma companies. They rarely exceed 250 mg / ml. More often they’re at 100mg / ml. Fair enough, since medical doses of steroids tend to be a fraction of the body builders intake, so body builders want to inject less volume . . . .

Bad injection technique/ hygiene, just how difficult can it be ?! maybe some guys are using the same needle they’d just used to pull out of the bottle ? surely not, but its vaguely possible they could inject themselves with a chunk of rubber, or infection from the cap.

I’m kind of convinced myself that the problem is either highly concentrated oils (more than 300mg / ml) or simply injecting too much gear into one location in one shot. . . . triggering an allergic reaction.

Is there a consensus among the home brewers here ?

First post on this forum BTW, hi everyone.

I’m on trt eod protocol and i use the same 30g needle to draw hcg from its vial then test from its vial then inject. Never have any issues with it feeling dull or any reaction

I’m surprised you can pull your shot out with a 30g needle, but you’re using the same needle to pull twice and inject with . . . . meanwhile it works for you and no pip so fair do’s. If infection from the bottle caps were an issue, you’d have found out by now, so it seems even more unlikely now.

Etiocholanolone (test flu)

Thanks Unreal, so its definitely the test, and not the alcohol, or excipient. Any idea why it affects some people and not others ? or even someone whos had no problems before but starts a cycle and straightaway there it is ?

Since its a metabolite, i’d expect it to be circulating freely in the bloodstream, causing general ill health, but not the localised severe pip some individuals report. I’m possibly conflating two separate issues here 'though.

Typically two seperate issues unless the injection site reaction is particularly severe (with a ton of inflammation), if so, then the inflammation could be making you feel sick.

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