T Nation

PIP Pain and Sickness


#1

Hey guys, I’m 29 195lbs 5’11" with very low body fat. I’m on my first cycle
test E 500mg 250mg pins 2x wk 12 was
Arimidex .25mg eod
Nolva 40/40/20/20
I’ve been researching for over 8 years and have a good understanding of AAS.
But I’ve been pinning with 1.5in 25ga pins. First was in delt and Pip got so bad I couldn’t use my arm for like 3 days, abs I got sick AF. Once the pip went away (4 days) then I felt better. So I switched to my glute. Same deal, I missed work bc of it last week. It was Virgin muscle and I’m hoping that’s all. But I warm the gear, hot shower, relaxed muscle, 30 sec per ml, 10 sec wait till pin comes out, and massage. Idk wtf the deal is. Test E isn’t that painful. I can’t find much on this. Especially about sickness right of the bat. Oh and I get kinda spacey in my head the same day as pins. Any ideas??


#2

I would stay away from peripheral injection sites until you have some more experience. Stick to your outer upper glute (least painful) and the meaty part of your thigh(easiest access). Also unless you’re heavily overweight an inch and a half may be Overkill. Without seeing the affected area or knowing more about your injection procedure, it’s difficult to tell you what the problem is. Just remember to keep everything extremely clean anf to seek medical attention for excessive swelling, pain, and redness. You won’t get in trouble for asking a doctor if you have an infection. If you don’t trust your doctor, you can go to a county hospital or public health office for free (in the US at least.)

When you say you got sick you mean physically so? If so it could just be test flu while your body acclimates. Definitely stay away from your abs for injection until you have experience, whatever your situation. I don’t think the deltoid is it good spot either unless yours is huge and/or your an experienced needle user.


#3

I’m an experienced needle user. Not in the IM respect tho. I pinned my upper outerus quadrant in my glute. And yes I was physically ill. Sweats, upset stomach, dizziness, flu like symptoms. I thought maybe my body was going nuts with the new flood of hormones or possibly test flu. But all the material I read was saying test flu sets in much later than mine did. The sickness had went away, but now I just feel lightheaded after a dose. Really weird.


#4

That sounds like a histamine release and immune response to the injection in your ab. I wouldn’t be concerned unless it starts to show signs of infection. Although I don’t think I would ever give myself an IM injection on my abdominal muscles. As bizarre as it sounds IM injection’s are much more sensitive and much easier to f****** up compared to IV injections. Using good gear and keeping everything completely sterile becomes twice as important because your body 1) can’t dissipate toxins and bacteria from a muscle as fast as from the blood stream and 2) your body’s immune response can’t get into the muscle as fast to fight an infection.


#5

In my ab? What? My glute is my ass bro. And today is so fucking sore I can’t walk. I’ve woke up at 2am bc I can’t get comfortable and I’ve got cold chills and a headache. I’m about sick of this shit and about to say fuck it.


#6

Lmao its virgin muscle dude. It sucks just try to tough it out. Most all of us have dealt with this before.

The things i try to be aware of when pinning.

Use a seperate needle to draw, than you inject with.
Alcohol swab the bottle and site of injection.
ALWAYS pull back the plunger immediately after you pin to checkfor blood. If you have struck blood. Take the needle out and re stab.

I personally have had two nasty infections from pinning. Sometimes it just happens.
Rotate glute, glute, left quad, glute, glute right quad.
As for the sickness this happens, theres nothing you can do about it but usually given that your keep your hormone levels balanced from here on in, you will only experiance this once per cycle.


#7

And you will get pip for atleast the first 5 times at each muscle. Pain decreasing slightly each time untill none.

Also, of course it is all personal preference but i find that i get less pip with larger needles, i noticed you are using 25 guage. Maybe try 23


#8

Honestly I think I pushed it in a lil fast. I had shit to do and tried to get it in quick. And every time I get the sick feeling bro I wake up wired that night.


#9

It is more common to inject in the manner in which you describe. Hold needle 3 inches away from skin and jab it quickly into your muscle. A slow push into the muscle without jabbing is going to cause you more pain


#10

I have issues with PIP when I inject into the glutes. I switched to insulin needles and I pin the quads now. More veins so be careful. I dont have any trouble seeing my veins so its pretty easy to pin around them. Plus, I am not at a weird angle trying to stick a needle in my ass.


#11

I have had experience that bruised me to pieces. No matter what I tried, I warmed up the oil, I iced it after, I would warm it after, I put on arnica oil after, I elevated the muscle, I lowered the concentration by adding additional oil…nothing helped. it gave me test flu and bruises even after years of pinning.

Sometimes it’s just a shit product from a shit lab.

but if you are determined to use the oil try the following:
This has worked well for me in the past with shit products.
1.always warm the oil
2. as soon as you pin run arnica oil on the muscle. You can get this from a whole foods grocery store. It’s for bruising.
3. after you put the arnica oil on, grab an ice pack and ice the crap out of it.
4. Elevate the muscle
5. rotate injetion sites obviously. But start including triceps, lats, traps so you have more options.
6. buy some oil and reduce the concentration of the test. e.g. if it’s 250 p ml then add enough oil to make it 200 p ml. This will require some math. Or you can forgo the math and just add .3-.5 cc of sterile oil to the syringe when you inject.

why are you taking nolva during your cycle with the adex? or is the nolva for your PCT?

there is no reason to take nolva during your cycle. it reduces igf levels considerably. also, your estrogen levels will bottom out.


#12

No no. Novla is my pct. I just threw my whole cycle out there. I’m so sore today I can barely walk


#13

you definitely wrote ‘abs’ in your first post. I think it was a typo, should have said ‘and’. But that would lead to some confusion, lol. I had to re-read it to catch your meaning.

Also, I don’t know if this will help, but you definitely don’t HAVE to use such a long needle if you’re as lean as you suggest. You can see my physique in my picture… if you’re close to as lean as me, 5/8 is sufficient for any injection site. That’s all I use. 1" would be more than enough.


#14

Check to see if your juice has ethyl oleate as an ingrediant on the vial. Some people can get bad reactions from it, very bad feeling of PIP, general sickness. If this is the case for you get some gear without EO.


#15

Yes. I know where the glute is. You said “…abs I got sick.” Obviously a typo considering your response. How was I to know that?..


#16

I hear ya moose. I have done one other cycle but I don’t count it, bc I think my gear was bunk. I used insulin syringes in my delt and never got sore. But like I said i think it was bunk. Our bodies look to be about the same bmi. You think I may be going a but deep? Would that cause alot of pain hitting muscle that deep? It doesn’t hurt going in. My sickness is gone now, but still painful. And trust me having this sore glute being a lineman like I am isn’t fun. Climbing Poles with this deal hurts so bad I wanted to puke today.


#17

I was messing with you bro. It’s this dumbass phone I got. It just spells what it wants to most days.


#18

Don’t sweat it. I have to deal with the same autocorrect b******. Especially since I use voice to text most of the time. If I don’t proofread then I might as well have not sent the message in the first place most of the time.

As far as needle length you definitely need to be going at an angle with that long of a needle. If you’re going in at anymore then 45 degrees or using more than half the needle, it’s definitely Overkill. Though too long of a needle is definitely more forgiving than too short of a needle and excess length doesn’t preclude proper use. Just focus on getting the tip of the needle in the middle of the muscle. It’s definitely going to take some practice which is why I’d recommend using the largest muscles you have available until you get it down. Also access is easier in certain areas and may allow you to work on your Technique more. The thigh would be an example of this though some people can be sensitive in that area so you just need to experiment a little and find out what works best for you.


#19

Tbh bro I’m scared to do the quads. I’ve read so many horror stories. And yeah I was using all 1.5in at a 90° angle. I lay down cross my leg so I can see and have at it. Idk live and learn I guess. And it’s 200mg/ml to whoever wanted to know.


#20

Damn I’m surprised you weren’t poking bone. I can hit muscle at 90 degrees with a half an inch in some areas and I’m still 15%bf.

If you do try your quad, be aware it does not carry as much surface fat typically as your glute, and thus hitting the center should require even less length.