Phys. Ed No Longer Required

[quote]DJHT wrote:
I should have been more clear, I was actually looking at it from the administration aspect not the teachers. Teachers do not decide what curriculum is set for graduation, or set what the standard of education is. Also from a parents point of view, most parents look at their children as being the best and brightest at everything. As a parent of 5 kids I can attest to what I have seen raising my kids and other parents.

I know not every kid can play sports however setting a standard of at least having some type of physical requirement at least puts some pressure on the situation. [/quote]

…and we now live in a country where they are trying to get rid of letter grades for exams and classes because they don’t want kids to feel bad.

We were fucked long before this and I don’t see “mandatory PE” as doing anythign to change the real situation…ie, tons of overprivileged kids who don’t do shit at home in terms of physical work or even play, who eat crap all day and then let it sit in them as they spend 5 hours online playing Halo a night.

I mean, we are so out of shape, the military is now having to revamp their entire training regimen to meet the growing “Fat Ass Population Needs”.

How can school correct this in an hour? It can’t. Most of these kids can’t do anything. It isn’t like there are even 5 kids in the average class today who can do 10 push ups unassisted.

So, what would the requirements be that would actually mean anything? One push up? Half a pull up?

I know, we can have a contest for who can shovel down the most apple pies while scoring high on a standardized first person shooter.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]krebcycle wrote:
Just out of interest what does PE consist of in the US? I work in this area here in the UK, and PE lessons are still heavily games and sports based. It’s a core subject all the way through school pretty much, which is something i definitely agree with. I will however say that PE should not be held responsible for looking after the health of the youth. PE is definitely a good way of introducing kids to new sports and activities that they will hopefully then use to help them stay active and healthy, but it should not be seen as solution on it’s own.
[/quote]

It depends on the school. At most you are looking at running around the track, playing a game of volleyball or basketball or doing some push ups or pull ups as a group. It is nothing that will make anyone cry or throw up.

I remember very few kids being able to do even one pull up back then.[/quote]

Sounds quite different to PE over here. There are several key areas that schools are meant to teach- Swimming, Athletics, Games, gymnastics/dance, and outdoor and adventurous. In reality most schools still have a heavy games bias, and swimming as well as outdoors and adventurous are quite often neglected.
The issue I have with PE lessons seen as a solution to obesity etc. is purely one of time. Each kid gets two lessons of PE a week, each an hour long. if you subtract 10 mins from the beginning, and then 10 mins from the end for changing you are left with 40 mins. Of this 40 mins you have to deal with oganization, behaviour management, not to mention teaching! I’d say that in any one lesson a kid probably gets no more then 10 mins of exercise that is at least of moderate intensity. Thats definitely not going to do much to get them shedding the pounds. PE is education. It can educate kids about being active and enjoying being active. Unfortunately politicians all to often use PE teachers as an easy reference when people ask them how they will deal with obesity crises etc.

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I’m not sure I see the problem. Is it really up to the publik skoolz to require students to “exercise” to graduate? (“Exercise” in H.S. P/E is a joke)


“Within the high school, it’s so important that students are taking physical education so they can learn all the skills for a healthy lifestyle,” she said.

How about in the home? Parents could do wonders by kicking the kids off the goddammed PS3 and making them go outside and play when they’re young.

Article says they’re not nixing PE, it’s just not a requirement for graduation.
Highschool PE was one of the biggest godawful wastes of time in my life.[/quote]

Steely I see your point, however this to me is an easy way out.

The reality of the situation of dropping PE requirement is setting a precedent also. “Well we suck at teaching kids PE and we do not want to improve what we do, so lets just quit. Why make kids do something hard, its easier to just give them a choice. No one left behind. They are all special snowflakes.”

If our educational system in America or even some states could rival other countries then I would agree, however we tend to keep “dumbing down” our system as it is. Now we are giving passes to sit on there ass even more. Just my .02 fist bump. [/quote]

LOL @ “dumbing down” phys-ed.

Schools are dumbed down because of lack of parental involvement. Period. Parents = apathetic or lazy.

Phys Ed activities I remember: Yoga. Square Dancing. Badminton. Darts (yes, darts with pointies). Fucking.Joke.

The whole public education argument is wasted on me. Homeschoolers do in 3-4 hours what takes 8 or two days in public schools because of the baby sitting that has to take place. “Phys ed” is fluff.

You want your kids not to be fat asses? Throw away your TV and game boxes. Stop buying Twinkies and moon pies. Make them go outside and run around. Put them in some extra curricular activity that involves movement.

Bullshit if you say some parents can’t do this.

Schools don’t NEED phys ed as “a requirement for graduation” when there are so many kids graduating somehow without fundamental math and reading skills.

No phys ed a travesty? No. Colleges offering remedial math and reading classes is a goddammed national travesty.[/quote]

I clarified some of my comments on what my perspective is in a response to X. The “Dumbing down” was not related to PE, it was on our educational system as a whole. The administrators in our educational system take more and more away in requirements and place more and more responsibility of the educators. Most teachers are required to perform as surrugate parents other than educators of young minds.

In my view the more you take away from the requirements makes it even easier on the kids and parents. What next as long as you can read at a 1st grade level its fine to graduate because at least you have that basic level.

Or next will be those little scooters for the kids that are to fat to get from one class to the other.

I am talking about setting a standard and fucking stick to it, stop lowering the bar on everything.

[quote]DJHT wrote:
I am talking about setting a standard and fucking stick to it, stop lowering the bar on everything. [/quote]

But you see, THAT is what it would really take…not lowering the bar ON EVERYTHING. They are doing this across the board. Why are there so many damned scooters at Walmart? These fuckers would HAVE to walk if they didn’t cater to them.

You can’t tell teachers they can’t reprimand your kids while also telling them they need to change all of your kids bad habits at school while the parents at home don’t change at all.

That leads nowhere.

We lost this the moment personal responsibility flew out the window.

The day you could sue for walking your dumbass into a water fountain in a public mall all because you were using your phone and not watching where you were going is the day our world ended.

We just don’t know we’re dead yet.

[quote]DMobley1022 wrote:
Are you kidding me? PE no longer required…lets just get fatter and fatter:
http://www.9news.com/seenon9news/article.aspx?storyid=180465&catid=509[/quote]

Why don’t you take care of your own kids instead of expecting someone else to?

[quote]Professor X wrote:

This stuff starts at home. That teacher and that school didn’t have those kids. This comes back to personal responsibility.

If you don’t want fat kids, quit letting them do all of the things that make them fat.[/quote]

Exactly. When people blame PE or say that we need to do more through PE lessons it frustrates me. As a PE teacher I have 2 hours with each kid a week. If they take part in extracurricular sports then that can be more, but the kids who are doing extracurricular sport are not the ones we are talking about here.

The truth is if a kid is overweight, it is the parents responsibility to do something about it. Children are for the most part completely reliant on their parents for money, and therefore food, access to TV, access to video games etc. That means the parents have the control, and if they are not exercising some then no wonder kids are turning out like this.

[quote]krebcycle wrote:
Just out of interest what does PE consist of in the US? I work in this area here in the UK, and PE lessons are still heavily games and sports based. It’s a core subject all the way through school pretty much, which is something i definitely agree with. I will however say that PE should not be held responsible for looking after the health of the youth. PE is definitely a good way of introducing kids to new sports and activities that they will hopefully then use to help them stay active and healthy, but it should not be seen as solution on it’s own.
[/quote]

Jogging and stretching. If your teacher was BA and was your football coach dodge ball, lifting weights, and basketball.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
I am talking about setting a standard and fucking stick to it, stop lowering the bar on everything. [/quote]

But you see, THAT is what it would really take…not lowering the bar ON EVERYTHING. They are doing this across the board. Why are there so many damned scooters at Walmart? These fuckers would HAVE to walk if they didn’t cater to them.

You can’t tell teachers they can’t reprimand your kids while also telling them they need to change all of your kids bad habits at school while the parents at home don’t change at all.

That leads nowhere.

We lost this the moment personal responsibility flew out the window.

The day you could sue for walking your dumbass into a water fountain in a public mall all because you were using your phone and not watching where you were going is the day our world ended.

We just don’t know we’re dead yet.[/quote]

Watch it X the young ones will be calling you an old grumpy gills. I have my last kid in school right now, and my wife and I have fought with the other 3 all through school. We have always told the teachers, we know our kids if they fuck up you call us and we will fix it. You are not the parent that is our job.

But I agree with you Rome is burning.

[quote]DJHT wrote:
Watch it X the young ones will be calling you an old grumpy gills. I have my last kid in school right now, and my wife and I have fought with the other 3 all through school. We have always told the teachers, we know our kids if they fuck up you call us and we will fix it. You are not the parent that is our job.

But I agree with you Rome is burning.[/quote]

But you see, that’s the point. EVERY parent, in spite of flat out poor parenting and neglect, demands that no teacher can tell their kid shit. Because of this, no kid is going to listen to that teacher outside of simply being good based on what treatment they get at home because of that action.

That means a teacher’s hands are tied if you now ask them to CHANGE how your kid thinks and acts with no change going on at home.

How the hell could that possibly work?

If the kid is fat to start with, the parents already fucked up…and it is highly unlikely that they are teaching good habits at home related to health.

So why would anyone blame the SCHOOL in that regard?

The problem is and always has been AT HOME.

I agree with most of your points that PE is not doing enough (or really much at all) to combat the obesity epidemic in children. Kids have mandatory PE now and they are still increasingly becoming gelatinous slobs.

However, since we all agree that there certainly is a problem with childhood (and adolescent) obesity in America, why cut it from the required curriculum? Even if it is ineffective, it is the ONLY mandatory exercise in a teen’s life. Cutting it certainly isn’t going to help the problem.

If you have a problem and the current “solution” to the problem is not affecting the desired changes, reform the solution. If anything we need more and better PE. I went to high school in Spain, and that shit was serious. At the beginning of the year we were tested on a number of different athletic events–2 mile time, 100 meter sprint, high jump, long jump, pullups, situps, etc. In order to pass PE you had to improve your numbers substantially over the course of the year. Class time was split between Health Ed. type things (learning basic anatomy, physiology, etc.), strength/endurance workouts, and soccer/basketball/volleyball games.

If you wanted to pass, you had to work on your shit outside of class. I can’t think of a better way to force kids to get up off their fat asses and exercise after school.

[quote]smh23 wrote:
I agree with most of your points that PE is not doing enough (or really much at all) to combat the obesity epidemic in children. Kids have mandatory PE now and they are still increasingly becoming gelatinous slobs.

However, since we all agree that there certainly is a problem with childhood (and adolescent) obesity in America, why cut it from the required curriculum? Even if it is ineffective, it is the ONLY mandatory exercise in a teen’s life. Cutting it certainly isn’t going to help the problem.

If you have a problem and the current “solution” to the problem is not affecting the desired changes, reform the solution. If anything we need more and better PE. I went to high school in Spain, and that shit was serious. At the beginning of the year we were tested on a number of different athletic events–2 mile time, 100 meter sprint, high jump, long jump, pullups, situps, etc. In order to pass PE you had to improve your numbers substantially over the course of the year. Class time was split between Health Ed. type things (learning basic anatomy, physiology, etc.), strength/endurance workouts, and soccer/basketball/volleyball games.

If you wanted to pass, you had to work on your shit outside of class. I can’t think of a better way to force kids to get up off their fat asses and exercise after school.[/quote]

I think all kids should do PE and it should be a core subject. But PE teachers are not personal trainers, they are not there to get the kids fit. They are there to educate, just like any other teacher. I can’t really comment on the US curriculum as, from what has been said in this thread it seems completely different to the UK/European model. But the social issues are most definitely the same. Responsibility for children’s health lies primarily with their parents.

I agree that schools can only do so much. I have two young children in elementary school. I am in a bit of a unique situation. My children go to a DOD school on a US base in Japan and my wife is Japanese.

I constantly hear some co-workers and friends complaining of the quality of the DOD school system. I find this surprising, because my experience has been nothing but positive. I believe that the difference in our experiences is based on the evolvement of the parents.

As I mentioned, my wife is Japanese and I currently live in Japan. The first language that my children spoke was Japanese. They speak English fine, but I’ve always been concerned with their reading comprehension. What I’ve done is engage my children’s teachers at the beginning of each school year with my concern. The teachers have been great. I’ve even had teachers meet with me after my working hours and show me methods I can use at home to check my children’s reading ability and they send me emails with drills I can use at home to reenforce what they are being taught in class.

It has also been interesting to see the way that my Japanese wife approaches children and school. When my first child started school and would bring home spelling and math tests every Friday I saw first hand the difference in our two cultures. If there is one wrong answer, she freaks the fuck out. If my kids get a 95% on a test she locks up the DS and Play Station and tells them it is unacceptable and disgraces our family. At first, I thought it was a bit much, but through discussion realized her way of thinking and now agree with it.

Yes, we all learn from our mistakes. But, what is the point of children making those mistakes on a graded test? There isn’t any and here is the kicker. It isn’t the child’s fault. It’s OUR fault as parents. We haven’t been doing our job. How do you set expectations with a 7 or 9 year old? It’s hard. What has work for us is by taking the time to be there with them while they are doing homework and grade it ourselves and then work with them on the areas that we see them having difficulty with. We also reenforce the importance of school grades.

I love my children and it would be great if all I had to do was just play and laugh with them all day. But that isn’t going to help them or prepare them for life. I believe that as a parent I have a responsibility to them and to our society to ensure that they enter adulthood fully prepared to contribute in some meaningful way. If that means that sometimes I have to be the “bad” guy, or I have to spend a couple hours after work helping them with school work. Well, then that’s what has to be done.

Sorry for the long rant and it swaying from the original topic.

Who in H.S. actually worked out during PE?? In H.S. all we would do is stand around and when we had to do the weekly mile somehow every girl was having cramps and was unable to run, the rest of us walked around the school for about 30 min.

[quote]krebcycle wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
I agree with most of your points that PE is not doing enough (or really much at all) to combat the obesity epidemic in children. Kids have mandatory PE now and they are still increasingly becoming gelatinous slobs.

However, since we all agree that there certainly is a problem with childhood (and adolescent) obesity in America, why cut it from the required curriculum? Even if it is ineffective, it is the ONLY mandatory exercise in a teen’s life. Cutting it certainly isn’t going to help the problem.

If you have a problem and the current “solution” to the problem is not affecting the desired changes, reform the solution. If anything we need more and better PE. I went to high school in Spain, and that shit was serious. At the beginning of the year we were tested on a number of different athletic events–2 mile time, 100 meter sprint, high jump, long jump, pullups, situps, etc. In order to pass PE you had to improve your numbers substantially over the course of the year. Class time was split between Health Ed. type things (learning basic anatomy, physiology, etc.), strength/endurance workouts, and soccer/basketball/volleyball games.

If you wanted to pass, you had to work on your shit outside of class. I can’t think of a better way to force kids to get up off their fat asses and exercise after school.[/quote]

I think all kids should do PE and it should be a core subject. But PE teachers are not personal trainers, they are not there to get the kids fit. They are there to educate, just like any other teacher. I can’t really comment on the US curriculum as, from what has been said in this thread it seems completely different to the UK/European model. But the social issues are most definitely the same. Responsibility for children’s health lies primarily with their parents.[/quote]

Unquestionably true: responsibility for kids’ health lies primarily with the parents. This will not and should not change. However, schools should still do the best that they can–because there are obviously going to be parents out their that are too ignorant/fat themselves to push their kids to exercise. The kids with parents like that will always be at a disadvantage, but with a truly good PE program at least they will be churning their plump little legs across a sports field a few hours a week.

MickD
I grew up in Japan, albeit some years ago, my first language was Japanese. When I returned to the states, I was blown away by the real culture shock of it all and academics was a biggie. Though both of my parents were regular Americans…it was a different world. i still maintain an old school mentality towards academics. I have and continue to fight with the academics in my area concerning the way students are graded and expectations are lowered. Where I am located, no child makes a failing grade ~ it might harm their self esteem!

I believe children rise to the level of the standard and expectation to which they are held. period.

Ohh well, that’s my soapbox and just the beginning at that…

 As a high School student I feel my opinion is somewhat relevant, and I am going to have to say P.E. should be optional.  
 In my high School we have so many great elective classes to take but with only 2 elective spots and having 2 years of mandatory language class as an elective and 1 year of computer apps mandatory it can be aggravating not being able to take some of the better electives especially for the half of the kids in the school who are in choir or band which already takes an elective each year. 

So for me 4 years of school is 1 real elective spot, to get around this I had to drop lunch which as someone trying to bigger is not

Sorry my post got split

 conductive to my goals.

Me being able to drop P.E. would be amazing for me physically and mentally in an abundance of ways.

[quote]Frosh 160 wrote:
As a high School student I feel my opinion is somewhat relevant, and I am going to have to say P.E. should be optional.
In my high School we have so many great elective classes to take but with only 2 elective spots and and having 2 years of mandatory language class as an elective and 1 year of computer apps mandatory it can be aggravating not being to be able to take a some of the better electives especially for the half of the kids in the school who are in choir or band which already takes an elective each year.
So for me 4 years of school is 1 real elective spot to get around this I had to drop lunch which as someone trying to bigger is not [/quote]

Don’t worry about phys ed. Work on your writing skills.

i love fat people.

^^ Sorry wasn’t paying attention much when writing that some of my words got jumbled I fixed it up a little.