T Nation

Phosphatydlserine, Cortisol & Lower Ab Fat?

[quote]Damici wrote:
Dave,

Just received my order of PS today. Any thoughts on when I should time the dose (or doses) if taking 1,600 mg per day? I work out in the evening (and have capsules that are 550 mg each). I was thinking of taking one capsule early in the day (post-breakfast) and the other 2 an hour or so after working out. Any thoughts on that, given Lockwood’s article? Thanks.

David Barr wrote:
caladin wrote:
Dave are you saying 1600mg for 2 weeks or 800mg for 2 weeks as being the double dosage? How much would you recomend for someone at 215lbs?

thanks!

1600mg is the double dose, because most recommendations are for 800mg (based on studies using people with less muscle mass).

I’d use a double dose because you’re sure to see an effect with it after 2 weeks (in Damici’s case, or caladin if in the same situation), if you’re ever going to see one. If there’s no effect then you can be sure that it is the supplement and not the dosage.

It’s about as good of a control as we can get with ourselves.
[/quote]

Are you sure they’re 550mg each? Mine for example says,

Each softgel contains:
500 mg of enriched phospholipid complex providing:
Phosphatidylserine (PS)… 100 mg

Just wondering if in fact they are around 100mg instead of 550mg.

Yup, I just looked again. Phosphatidylserine: 550 mg.

Mine is ProSource’s “Super Phosphatidylserine.”

[quote]Bri Hildebrandt wrote:
Damici wrote:
Dave,

Just received my order of PS today. Any thoughts on when I should time the dose (or doses) if taking 1,600 mg per day? I work out in the evening (and have capsules that are 550 mg each). I was thinking of taking one capsule early in the day (post-breakfast) and the other 2 an hour or so after working out. Any thoughts on that, given Lockwood’s article? Thanks.

David Barr wrote:
caladin wrote:
Dave are you saying 1600mg for 2 weeks or 800mg for 2 weeks as being the double dosage? How much would you recomend for someone at 215lbs?

thanks!

1600mg is the double dose, because most recommendations are for 800mg (based on studies using people with less muscle mass).

I’d use a double dose because you’re sure to see an effect with it after 2 weeks (in Damici’s case, or caladin if in the same situation), if you’re ever going to see one. If there’s no effect then you can be sure that it is the supplement and not the dosage.

It’s about as good of a control as we can get with ourselves.

Are you sure they’re 550mg each? Mine for example says,

Each softgel contains:
500 mg of enriched phospholipid complex providing:
Phosphatidylserine (PS)… 100 mg

Just wondering if in fact they are around 100mg instead of 550mg.[/quote]

[quote]Damici wrote:
Yup, I just looked again. Phosphatidylserine: 550 mg.

Mine is ProSource’s “Super Phosphatidylserine.”

Bri Hildebrandt wrote:
Damici wrote:
Dave,

Just received my order of PS today. Any thoughts on when I should time the dose (or doses) if taking 1,600 mg per day? I work out in the evening (and have capsules that are 550 mg each). I was thinking of taking one capsule early in the day (post-breakfast) and the other 2 an hour or so after working out. Any thoughts on that, given Lockwood’s article? Thanks.

David Barr wrote:
caladin wrote:
Dave are you saying 1600mg for 2 weeks or 800mg for 2 weeks as being the double dosage? How much would you recomend for someone at 215lbs?

thanks!

1600mg is the double dose, because most recommendations are for 800mg (based on studies using people with less muscle mass).

I’d use a double dose because you’re sure to see an effect with it after 2 weeks (in Damici’s case, or caladin if in the same situation), if you’re ever going to see one. If there’s no effect then you can be sure that it is the supplement and not the dosage.

It’s about as good of a control as we can get with ourselves.

Are you sure they’re 550mg each? Mine for example says,

Each softgel contains:
500 mg of enriched phospholipid complex providing:
Phosphatidylserine (PS)… 100 mg

Just wondering if in fact they are around 100mg instead of 550mg.

[/quote]

I just looked at their website. It’s 5 times cheaper than what I got it for! If that’s a reputable company that doesn’t sell grass clippings, then I’m getting royally ripped off! Crappy. :slight_smile:

Bri,

Yeah, I’m no expert but I think they’re pretty legit. I’m now pondering how and when to take it, as Chris Lockwood’s article said to definately not take it right before working out, and he even said something about not taking it “for a few hours” after working out (?). I’m thinking that, since I work out in the evening (usually between around 9:00 and 10:00) and then go to bed by 11:15-ish, maybe I’ll take 2 tablets right before bed and 1 tablet sometime in the morning, to equal a total of 1,650 mg per day (as per Dave’s recommendation).

Make sense, ya’ think . . . ?

[quote]Damici wrote:
Bri,

Yeah, I’m no expert but I think they’re pretty legit. I’m now pondering how and when to take it, as Chris Lockwood’s article said to definately not take it right before working out, and he even said something about not taking it “for a few hours” after working out (?). I’m thinking that, since I work out in the evening (usually between around 9:00 and 10:00) and then go to bed by 11:15-ish, maybe I’ll take 2 tablets right before bed and 1 tablet sometime in the morning, to equal a total of 1,650 mg per day (as per Dave’s recommendation).

Make sense, ya’ think . . . ?
[/quote]

I like that Idea. Will do that myself when I purchase it.

I once tried a a fairly high-dose PS regimen for post-exercise cortisol suppression and noticed an increased level of joint pain, particularly in my hips. I believe this may be due to the body’s use of cortisol for recuperation of connective tissue from trauma and, therefore, suppressing it may have that unwanted side effect.

Corisol is very important.

Spiking insulin after a strenuous workout is a better idea.

Addison’s disease occurs from a cortisol difficiency.

True, and I understand cortisol’s anti-inflammatory actions, but if one’s cortisol level is theoretically TOO high, would not lowering it to some small degree be useful?

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Corisol is very important.

Spiking insulin after a strenuous workout is a better idea.

Addison’s disease occurs from a cortisol difficiency.
[/quote]

There is a bulk PS (SerinAid?) out there that you can find for pretty cheap (for 100g) with a search engine. Haven’t tried it myself but have been researching it.

[quote]Damici wrote:
Hi Dave,

Here’s the link: http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=778056 . In short, Chris Lockwood says that PS can be useful for someone for whom cortisol might be too high, but says that the reason it shouldn’t be taken pre-workout is because the rising of cortisol levels due to exercise is what signals the body’s anabolic response to kick into gear . . . .

“To set the record straight, the cortisol response to training is quite possibly the MOST important factor contributing to the anabolic response to your training. In other words, the greater the muscle damage, the greater the cortisol response?and, subsequently, the greater the body’s anabolic response and muscle building potential.”

(He of course goes into more detail if you read the whole article).[/quote]

Thanks for the link. I’ve read the article but can’t see how cortisol elevates, initiates, or is necessary for anabolism.

The stimulation of muscle protein synthesis is probably my favorite topic, and I just don’t see cortisol playing a positive role.

My earlier experimental suggestion stands.

[as a side note, cortisol may be slightly anabolic (or at least possess negligible anabolic activity) because our muscle senses the elevated blood amino acids levels from its own breakdown and turns up protein synthesis a little -purely an academic point to be sure, as the net result is overwhelmingly catabolic]

Thanks Dave, so with my 550 mg pills, how/when would you suggest I divide up the dosage (or take it in one shot), assuming I want to use 3 per day, getting me to a total of 1,650 mg? Again, I work out in the evening (9:00 to 10:00 pm usually) and try to get to bed by 11:15-ish.

Should I take one before working out and 2 after, or 2 after and 1 first thing in the morning, or . . . or . . . ?

Thanks again!

Just a suggestion for controlling cortisol,there are more cost effective supplements out there imo.A-7E or 7-oxo[main ingredient in HOT-ROX]works really well.I’ve also used a high quality herb relora with sucess as well.

[quote]Damici wrote:
Thanks Dave, so with my 550 mg pills, how/when would you suggest I divide up the dosage (or take it in one shot), assuming I want to use 3 per day, getting me to a total of 1,650 mg? Again, I work out in the evening (9:00 to 10:00 pm usually) and try to get to bed by 11:15-ish.

Should I take one before working out and 2 after, or 2 after and 1 first thing in the morning, or . . . or . . . ?

Thanks again![/quote]

If they’re tabs you can probably cut them in half (ie 2 doses of 1.5 tabs).

Would you suggest then 1.5 tabs right before working out and 1.5 tabs right after?

[quote]David Barr wrote:
Damici wrote:
Thanks Dave, so with my 550 mg pills, how/when would you suggest I divide up the dosage (or take it in one shot), assuming I want to use 3 per day, getting me to a total of 1,650 mg? Again, I work out in the evening (9:00 to 10:00 pm usually) and try to get to bed by 11:15-ish.

Should I take one before working out and 2 after, or 2 after and 1 first thing in the morning, or . . . or . . . ?

Thanks again!

If they’re tabs you can probably cut them in half (ie 2 doses of 1.5 tabs).
[/quote]