T Nation

Phosphatydlserine, Cortisol & Lower Ab Fat?


#1

One of my stubborn spots with regard to losing fat, even when I get quite lean and have a solid 4-pack bordering on 6, is my lower ab area. Even at a pretty darn low BF, I still have a slight protrusion of fat there. Charles Poliquin has said that a predisposition for lower ab fat is often a result of high cortisol levels (which are most often found in people in the northeastern U.S., like me in NYC).

In an effort to battle cortisol I was thinking of supplementing with phosphatydlserine. Has anyone tried this? Worthwhile or worthless? If worthwhile, do you have any idea what dosage is optimal?

Thanks.


#2

No one . . . ?


#3

Google "body fat blue-print" for some good info. Some people think lower ab (umbilical skinfold) is a cortisol/GH/testosterone site. I have the same problem.

When my test goes up (many different ways), my umbilical skinfold goes down.

Hope that helps. PS is expensive. A good phosphatydlserine (PS) supplement is muscle links' CortBloc.


#4

I read CT recommending 600-800 mg to blunt the cortisol response to training (at least in that ballpark).

No idea what would be needed/optimal to help with fat loss, though. Sorry.


#5

You could also look into ChemOne's Targex. It is glycyherrlinic acid in a proprietyary transdermal lotion applied directly to the 'trouble spot'. I believe it works on receptors at the site.


#6

Cool. Thanks guys.


#7

If your [sic] at the end of your rope then PS is the next experimental step if you can afford it.

800mg is the typical studied dose, but you'll likely need more due to body weight. A double dose for 2 weeks as you lean out will be a good indicator.

Keep us updated!


#8

Dave,

Thanks very much. I searched this site and found an article by Chris Lockwood from a few months back in which he recommends 800 mg but only taken several hours (?) after working out. He says to definately NOT take it pre-workout. I know that Thib also recommends 800 mg post-workout.

If I were to take around 1,600 mg per day, do you have any recommendations regarding how I should time it (both on workout days and non-workout days)? (BTW, my workouts are always in the evening).

Thanks again!

(What an awesome website this is)!


#9

Oh, forgot to mention (regarding bodyweight and all), I'm 205 at 5'11", 31 years old. (Male, of course). :wink:


#10

Dave are you saying 1600mg for 2 weeks or 800mg for 2 weeks as being the double dosage? How much would you recomend for someone at 215lbs?

thanks!


#11

Are you familiar with ChemOne's Targex, Dave? Any thoughts on it?


#12

Are you familiar with ChemOne's Targex, Dave? Any thoughts on it?[/quote]

I have also been looking at targex lately and am curious.


#13

We're still in the experimental stage of PS supplementation, so there are no rules that I'm aware of (so far).

Do you know why pre workout supplementation was contraindicated? This seems like the best time to me.

You could try the other dose immediately upon waking, or in the middle of the night (due to a time-delay effect).


#14

1600mg is the double dose, because most recommendations are for 800mg (based on studies using people with less muscle mass).

I'd use a double dose because you're sure to see an effect with it after 2 weeks (in Damici's case, or caladin if in the same situation), if you're ever going to see one. If there's no effect then you can be sure that it is the supplement and not the dosage.

It's about as good of a control as we can get with ourselves.


#15

It's interesting, but the study on which it is based didn't mention the transdermal carrier in the abstract. If it's an identical product then it has potential.

It also has potential to reduce testosterone levels, but the data are equivocal.

I'm going to follow this closely. Thanks for the heads up.


#16

Damn you guys! I'm a recovering PubMed addict and you helped me fall of the wagon! LOL


#17

Hi Dave,

Here's the link: http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=778056 . In short, Chris Lockwood says that PS can be useful for someone for whom cortisol might be too high, but says that the reason it shouldn't be taken pre-workout is because the rising of cortisol levels due to exercise is what signals the body's anabolic response to kick into gear . . . .

"To set the record straight, the cortisol response to training is quite possibly the MOST important factor contributing to the anabolic response to your training. In other words, the greater the muscle damage, the greater the cortisol response?and, subsequently, the greater the body's anabolic response and muscle building potential."

(He of course goes into more detail if you read the whole article).


#18

Sure. Let me know if you come to any conclusions.


#19

800mg a day gets pretty expensive. That's $160 Canadian a month where I live. From what I've read the benefits don't justify the cost. It's an expensive experiment. :slightly_smiling:

The bottle I bought awhile back is Natural Factors phosphatidylserine 100mg x 60 softgels for $39.97 plus tax. Perhaps others can get it a bit cheaper but I still don't think it's worth it.

I experimented with it a little while back but didn't notice anything worthwhile.


#20

Dave,

Just received my order of PS today. Any thoughts on when I should time the dose (or doses) if taking 1,600 mg per day? I work out in the evening (and have capsules that are 550 mg each). I was thinking of taking one capsule early in the day (post-breakfast) and the other 2 an hour or so after working out. Any thoughts on that, given Lockwood's article? Thanks.