T Nation

Phosphatidyl Serine


#1

Does anyone take this? Any opinions on it? Dosage? Brand? etc

I have seen Phosphatidyl Serine recommended at dosages of minimum 400mg, up to 800mg (and possibly higher).

I looked up NOW's version, and a 120 count of 100mg V-caps is 35.99. That's about $0.30/100mg, and if min. recommendations I have seen are 400mg, that's $1.20/day. I wanted to add this with Rhodiola, but that would start to get pricey.


#2

I personally haven’t taken it yet, though I plan on it for my next fat loss phase. From what I have read it’s good stuff, very effective at reducing excessive cortisol levels.

The dosage reccomendations range from 400 - 800 mg as you said. These doses are best taken post-training and with your evening meal.

As far as brand is concerned, I have seen several but the one that keeps coming up is Poliquin’s brand. You can find it on his website.

I agree that this supplement can get pricey. However, a cheaper way to modulate cortisol would be glycine. It’s hard to compare gly to PPS since they exert their effects via different pathways but I have had positive experiences with it.

If you want more info check out Thibaudeau’s “Supplementation for Newbies” and his locker room thread about BioSignature.


#3

I take 800mg of the NOW brand post-workout. Not something you’re really going to notice, so it’s more of a “because of the science behind it” supplement.

I haven’t priced PS supplements in a while, but when I did, NOW was one of the cheapest (and they make a 120-count bottle).


#4

I’ve used it before (Poliquin’s brand, and NOW also). Never noticed anything, I’m sure it works though, like SBT said. I don’t take it anymore though, just too much money. I’d rather spend money on more important shit like protein powder.


#5

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#6

I bought some more PS. I didn’t want to give any more detail without hearing others opinions, but I have been taking 200mg with my PWO meal (after my shake). I lift around 6, and take Spike prewo, and the PS has been helping me come down, relax, and fall asleep.

I don’t know how much more effective 400mg would be over 200mg (probably twice as effective, duh!), but I am going to keep trying 200mg.


#7

[quote]gabex wrote:
I bought some more PS. I didn’t want to give any more detail without hearing others opinions, but I have been taking 200mg with my PWO meal (after my shake). I lift around 6, and take Spike prewo, and the PS has been helping me come down, relax, and fall asleep.

I don’t know how much more effective 400mg would be over 200mg (probably twice as effective, duh!), but I am going to keep trying 200mg. [/quote]

I believe the most recent research used dosages of 600-800 mg.

I use 800mg and wouldn’t bother with PS if I were forced to use less.


#8

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

FWIW, glycine is one of the best sleep aid I have tried in recent times. It really allows me to drop of to sleep in about 10 minutes as opposed to the normal 40-60.

BBB[/quote]

Please expound.


#9

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#10

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#11

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:

FWIW, glycine is one of the best sleep aid I have tried in recent times. It really allows me to drop of to sleep in about 10 minutes as opposed to the normal 40-60.

BBB

Please expound.

Well there’s not a great deal to add. I simply add 5g glycine to my pre-bed whey shake.

As I say, this allows me to switch off my brain and sleep. I still wake up 2-4 times per night as always, but I find it much easier to drop off again, after I have emptied my bladder and had another shake (minus glycine).

BBB[/quote]

LOL. I figured it was just adding glycine to a drink :wink: I wanted to hear the ‘dosage’ and maybe the ‘how/why’. I have a bottle of L-Glycine sitting around from a low-carb experiment. I hadn’t realized it was used as a sleep aid (I immediately searched for articles upon reading your post). It happens that I’ve been having a really hard time sleeping lately (even with a dose of melatonin), so it piqued my interest.


#12

Bushy do you know if there is any merit to using high dose vitamin C peri-workout for the same reason as the PS? I read Thibaudeau said something about oranges PWO and I have always found simple Vit C to be good at anti-stress.


#13

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#14

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#15

anyone notice that PPS powder gets all caked up after a few weeks? Poliquin’s PPS is expensive as hell. i saw some pretty well priced PPS capsules in the swanson catalog.

BBB, what brand of glycine do you use?


#16

Don’t buy it from Poliquin.

I will try to get it in bulk powder form like Bushy.


#17

As a brain-support nutrient, PS has been validated through double-blind trials for improving memory, learning, concentration, word recall, and mood in middle-aged and elderly subjects with dementia or age-related cognitive decline. In animal studies, long-term phosphatidylserine treatment has been shown to maintain the integrity of neuronal structures in the brain which have been altered by the aging process. These are logical findings, as PS is particularly enriched in the brain and has an excellent benefit-to-risk profile when compared to traditional treatments for memory loss.

PS has, which is interesting for athletes, been linked to a suppression of cortisol secretion during periods of intense training (20-30%) - an effect which may help enhance recovery and repair, particularly following intense exercise or injury.

For brain and mental support, 500-1000 mg of PS is recommended for a month or so, followed by a lower maintenance dose of approximately 500 mg per day. Take it devided into 3 doses, taken with meals.
Athletes may want to consider taking as much as 1-2 grams (1000-2000 mg) immediately before or following intense training to help suppress cortisol secretion and promote muscle recovery.

Personally, I take appr. 2’000 mg a day. Half of it pre- and half of it post-workout.


#18

As a brain-support nutrient, PS has been validated through double-blind trials for improving memory, learning, concentration, word recall, and mood in middle-aged and elderly subjects with dementia or age-related cognitive decline. In animal studies, long-term phosphatidylserine treatment has been shown to maintain the integrity of neuronal structures in the brain which have been altered by the aging process.

These are logical findings, as PS is particularly enriched in the brain and has an excellent benefit-to-risk profile when compared to traditional treatments for memory loss.

PS has, which is interesting for athletes, been linked to a suppression of cortisol secretion during periods of intense training (20-30%) - an effect which may help enhance recovery and repair, particularly following intense exercise or injury.

For brain and mental support, 500-1000 mg of PS is recommended for a month or so, followed by a lower maintenance dose of approximately 500 mg per day. Take it devided into 3 doses, taken with meals.
Athletes may want to consider taking as much as 1-2 grams (1000-2000 mg) immediately before or following intense training to help suppress cortisol secretion and promote muscle recovery.

Personally, I take 2’000mg a day. Each 1g pre and post-workout.


#19

I, too, have recently become interested in this substance; especially since I’m about to come off a cycle and want to modulate stress related responses. First, I have to say that to date I’m aware of only 3 studies which looked specifically at the use of oral PS and modulation of exercise induced cortisol production.

The highest dose used in the studies was 800 mg./day for 10 days. It was indeed associated with a significant reduction in post exercise cortisol levels–~30% I believe. higher doses were associated with greater reductions in cortisol (up to the maximum 800 mg. used ). It should be noted that moderate exercise and exercise lasting less than an hour are associated with only small or insignificant rises in cortisol.

So…I started looking around and found what I think is a good supplement. It’s called EndoAmp Max by a company called Primordial Performance. Her’s the contents:

Serving size…2200 mg (1 scoop)
Servings per container: 29

Amount Per Serving:

SerinAid* 1600 mg.

phosphatidylserine 800 mg.
phosphatidlcholine 154 mg.
phosphatidylethanolamine 128 mg.
phosphatidylinositol 68 mg.

AlphaSize* (A-GPC) 600 mg.

  • SerinAid & AlphaSize are registered trademarks of ChemiNutra Inc.

It runs $52.95 a container which is the best deal I can find. Now’s PS runs $19.95 for 60 100 mg. caps, that’s $80/month to use 800 mg./day WITHOUT the other phosphatidyl forms or the A-GPC. The best deal I can find on bulk PS still runs .90 gram at 50% purity, which works out to ~ $1.40 per 800 mg. dose, or ~$42/month–again, WITHOUT the additional ingredients.

I will use one (800 mg.) serving each day. On workout days this will be as per my usual Alpha-GPC usage,i.e., 1 1/2 hours prior to workout. At this time I see no evidence that would lead me to use larger dosages. I’ll give this a try throughout my PCT and see how it goes. I’ll have to reevaluate after that, as this is a pretty expensive supplement and I already have a rather complex and expensive supplement regimen.

Crowbar


#20

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