T Nation

Philando Castile Shooting

Concealed carry + drugs + police = predictable result.

In PA and NC you aren’t even allowed into an establishment that could be a “bar” while CCing because they don’t want armed citizens ingesting judgement-altering drugs (alcohol).

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Well said. Many of these people already start out the day with a below average IQ and a rebellious attitude. They then consume drugs and the rest is very predictable. In most of these cases there isn’t much left for the Police Officer to do after repeatedly ordering the person not to do whatever it is they are doing. You see posts from those who are clueless and untrained telling us otherwise. That is so much nonsense.

Is the Police Officer supposed to die because he waited a tenth of a second too long before he fires his weapon? No. In virtually every one of these cases from Trayvon Martin (a security guard involved) on down the Officer had no choice but to use deadly force.

They are tragic situations but they happened through no fault of the Police Officer (in virtually every instance).

I maintain this was not justifiable homicide. I do not agree with the result of the court case. If he was following procedure he would not have been fired. The blue wall is thick and high

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It seems to be contradictory that the officer would be cleared, but the settlement still tallies up to 3mil. If the officer is in the clear, seems like there should be no settlement. On the flip side, if there’s a settlement, seems like the officer shouldn’t be in the clear.

One of these things is not like the other eh?

Are you trying to say the justice system works different for cops?

Well of course it does :grinning:

Look up burdens of proof in criminal vs. civil cases.

There was no verdict in the civil case. They settled. I also care very little for legal semantics. After the city reviewed everything they had access to, they clearly decided SOMEONE (the officer) was at fault (ie, not justified) for the death of Castile.

I’m not saying the officer didn’t FEEL threatened at the time. I’m friends with a few cops/emt/firefighters in my city and surrounding area, so I’m aware that they’re genuinely in danger from time to time and have to make judgement calls (even if I wasn’t friends with them I’d hope the avg citizen is aware of this as well).

I understand that. I was explaining why the city settling does not make the verdict “contradictory.”

Not legally contradictory, which is why I said I care little for legal semantics. Basic logic though, if you settle, it’s because either you’ve done something wrong, or the cost of defending yourself is higher than the settlement.

Since the settlement was near $3mil USD, I think it’s safe to say the city feels as if they did something wrong. Guess I could be wrong though, I have no knowledge of how much it costs cities to defend themselves in these cases.

I am just looking at the facts of the case and given both videos which is most of the evidence we have, the cop did not follow proper procedure. Once a gun had been declared, you ascertain it’s location while having the suspects hands where they can be seen. So the orders should have been, ‘Put your hands on the steering wheel’ and ‘where is the firearm’, from there the officer can determine the safest course of action for the both of them. Not “I have a gun”, “OK, I need to see your drivers license and insurance”, “Don’t reach for it!”, Don’t reach for it!" Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! “FUCK!” 7 shots, where one would have been sufficient. Or I donno a stun gun???

I do not know how the jury could watch all that, look at the evidence and decide “Nope, nothing to see here”. Second degree manslaughter was totally appropriate.
I don’t believe the officer wanted to kill Philando, I just think he was dumb and didn’t follow protocol. I don’t know if race was a factor, that’s only something that God and the Officer knows. But it was a homicide and justice was not served. Why didn’t the officer just say “Okay, just stop. Don’t move. Now slowly raise your hands and put them on the steering wheel” <- This could have been ordered after the first ‘Don’t reach for it!’ command was issued.
If a man tells you he has a gun in a police stop, he’s not a threat. The threats don’t tell you they are threats. The cop had a world of options at his disposal to make this a non-lethal encounter over broken tail lights. Dumb.
A lack of justice in this case only makes things worse, especially when we can see everything with our own eyes. The only thing we couldn’t see was inside the car. Which would have been helpful, but only just a little.

If you see the cop on the right, he was caught totally off guard. He was not expecting his fellow officer to pump 7 shots in to a broken taillight suspect, whom, by all the audio we have was complying with the officer’s commands.
The facts of this case are what convince me of his guilt, nothing else.

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I don’t know the costs either. A Google search turned this up: Lawsuits against jails, sheriffs and state hospitals have cost taxpayers more than $38.6 million

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We had a Police abuse case close to where I live. And I tell you why if barely made the news, because the department dealt with it the right way. There was a video clearly showing the abuse. The commanding officers and sheriff gave the officers several attempts to tell the truth about what happened and they didn’t. So they were fired and the department filed charges against the policemen who did the abuse. That’s how you handle it.
A friend of my wife’s was actually 2 cars behind where it happened, she saw the whole thing and was horrified. She didn’t film it though. She was in shock.
Not only that but courts dropped dozens of convictions that were handled by the main instigator Bongiavonni. The videos put nails in those two officers careers and now they are about to be judge by a jury of their peers. Who knows maybe I get called up…

I pass my appreciation to the way the Gwinnett County Police department handled the situation. They did not try to hide, they dealt with it swiftly.

You sure know a lot about proper procedure and how to identify and deal with a threat. Are you a police officer?

No. That information is based on other policemen and woman discussing the case said, that he didn’t follow procedure. If he did, Philando would not be dead the officer would not be fired. Also, in dealings with the police when I told them that I have a firearm, I kept my hands on the wheel and let them know and told them where it was and followed their instructions there after. They didn’t tell me to reach for any info until the firearm was secured.

Hmm…you told them right off the bat that you were armed, and you didn’t wait until after you started reaching for something to tell them? Weird. That’s exactly what Castile did…unless I remember incorrectly…

The fact that I am alive and he is not is that the officer in my situation followed procedure and the officer in Philando’s case did not. They did not tell me to both reach and not reach. I told them, pretty much the way he did, but they didn’t instruct me to do anything after obtaining that knowledge except secure the firearm. I did it as a courtesy, in GA you are not required to tell an officer you are armed.
Actually, that info probably turned what would have been a ticket into a warning because they were fascinated that I carried a .357 revolver as a carry arm, so we ended up having a conversation about guns and what we like and don’t like…

You should probably watch the video again. He told Castile to retrieve his paperwork before Castile said anything about being armed.

Same here. They ask for my docs first, then I told them I was carrying… I have seen both videos enough. Nothing I see justified the officers use of force. Especially since he had non-lethal force available to him. There may have been a misunderstanding, which is why I don’t call it murder, but none of the evidence convinces me of need for 7 shots fired at point blank range to reduce a potential threat. The cop went to the gun too fast. He had help, there was no need to kill the man.
A manslaughter charge is appropriate. He may have only gotten a fine and probation, or up to 15 years. I’d say this case lands somewhere in the middle, 5 years. He killed a man that did not deserve to be killed, bottom line.
But it’s over, he walks. He lost his job, but he’s a free man. I hope he has a conscience and this bothers him.

As you’re fishing around your car for paperwork? I thought you said you keep your hands on the wheel…