Phil Heath Calls Out Arnold

robstein · June 10, 2015, 4:57pm

[quote]Steez wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:
I never understand how assisted BB’ers can say this kind of nonsense. I think what Phil really means is, “the technology of the PED’s I’ve been able to use is superior and advanced to what was available for Arnold.”
[/quote]

that’s not actually true. The classic steroids that are used by bodybuilders today are pretty much the same as what Arnie and the gang were using. Doses are way higher (supposedly), but the actual compounds are the same for the most part.[/quote]

This is my belief too. Maybe better quality these days with modern technology always advancing. But then you can make the shit in your basement with a basic high school chemistry set. [/quote]

Quality, dosages, whatever the combination is, does anyone think that training specifically, or any aspect OTHER than PEDs could be responsible for the current look of BB’ers?

dt79 · June 10, 2015, 5:11pm

[quote]robstein wrote:

[quote]Steez wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:
I never understand how assisted BB’ers can say this kind of nonsense. I think what Phil really means is, “the technology of the PED’s I’ve been able to use is superior and advanced to what was available for Arnold.”
[/quote]

that’s not actually true. The classic steroids that are used by bodybuilders today are pretty much the same as what Arnie and the gang were using. Doses are way higher (supposedly), but the actual compounds are the same for the most part.[/quote]

This is my belief too. Maybe better quality these days with modern technology always advancing. But then you can make the shit in your basement with a basic high school chemistry set. [/quote]

Quality, dosages, whatever the combination is, does anyone think that training specifically, or any aspect OTHER than PEDs could be responsible for the current look of BB’ers?
[/quote]

Yes. Food and lifting heavier poundages.

What is your point?

Steez · June 10, 2015, 5:27pm

[quote]robstein wrote:

[quote]Steez wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:
I never understand how assisted BB’ers can say this kind of nonsense. I think what Phil really means is, “the technology of the PED’s I’ve been able to use is superior and advanced to what was available for Arnold.”
[/quote]

that’s not actually true. The classic steroids that are used by bodybuilders today are pretty much the same as what Arnie and the gang were using. Doses are way higher (supposedly), but the actual compounds are the same for the most part.[/quote]

This is my belief too. Maybe better quality these days with modern technology always advancing. But then you can make the shit in your basement with a basic high school chemistry set. [/quote]

Quality, dosages, whatever the combination is, does anyone think that training specifically, or any aspect OTHER than PEDs could be responsible for the current look of BB’ers?
[/quote]

Yes, there names are Dorian Yates and Ronnie Coleman.

craze9 · June 10, 2015, 5:28pm

Did Arnold and his contemporaries take large doses of GH and insulin?

mbdix · June 10, 2015, 5:34pm

[quote]craze9 wrote:
Did Arnold and his contemporaries take large doses of GH and insulin?[/quote]

No

robstein · June 10, 2015, 6:07pm

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:

[quote]Steez wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:
I never understand how assisted BB’ers can say this kind of nonsense. I think what Phil really means is, “the technology of the PED’s I’ve been able to use is superior and advanced to what was available for Arnold.”
[/quote]

that’s not actually true. The classic steroids that are used by bodybuilders today are pretty much the same as what Arnie and the gang were using. Doses are way higher (supposedly), but the actual compounds are the same for the most part.[/quote]

This is my belief too. Maybe better quality these days with modern technology always advancing. But then you can make the shit in your basement with a basic high school chemistry set. [/quote]

Quality, dosages, whatever the combination is, does anyone think that training specifically, or any aspect OTHER than PEDs could be responsible for the current look of BB’ers?
[/quote]

Yes. Food and lifting heavier poundages.

What is your point? [/quote]

So you think the only thing separating todays BB’ers from 30 years ago is they’re eating more food and lifting heavier weights? My personal opinion is that the only thing separating Phil from Arnold is ultimately PEDs. Maybe the PEDs ALLOWED Phil to lift heavier weights and consume more food that could be synthesized into muscle or some cause and effect, but I cannot believe that if Arnold ate more food and lifted heavier weights he’d be just as big as todays competitors.

Let’s say Arnold and Phil are the same age, and Arnold was actively competing right now. Would his physique be an exact copy of the pictures posted above, or would he be just as big as current competitors?

TheCB · June 10, 2015, 6:19pm

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
I’m not a bodybuilding historian, but I’m pretty sure the “classic” knock on Arnold is that he “had no legs.”

Like if someone says Arnold is the greatest, you come back with, he had “no legs.” Just almost like some kind of cliche or something.

Or if you say P. Manning is the greatest ever, and I’m like, “greatest regular season, qb, brah.”[/quote]

arnold is not known as having no legs. have never heard that before.

he had a large chest and biceps as that was in vogue at the time. “smaller” legs were in fashion.

if you want to nit pick his tris and shoulders could have been bigger to match his biceps and chest.

the reality is 9/10 people would rather wake up tomorrow in arnold’s body than phil’s.

bodybuilding is clearly extremely fucked up. ramy is in shape at 350 i mean come on.
[/quote]

The reality is these same people want to see someone of Phil Heath’s size on the stage and not Arnold’s.[/quote]

what was the point of this post

Yogi1 · June 10, 2015, 6:31pm

[quote]robstein wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:

[quote]Steez wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:
I never understand how assisted BB’ers can say this kind of nonsense. I think what Phil really means is, “the technology of the PED’s I’ve been able to use is superior and advanced to what was available for Arnold.”
[/quote]

that’s not actually true. The classic steroids that are used by bodybuilders today are pretty much the same as what Arnie and the gang were using. Doses are way higher (supposedly), but the actual compounds are the same for the most part.[/quote]

This is my belief too. Maybe better quality these days with modern technology always advancing. But then you can make the shit in your basement with a basic high school chemistry set. [/quote]

Quality, dosages, whatever the combination is, does anyone think that training specifically, or any aspect OTHER than PEDs could be responsible for the current look of BB’ers?
[/quote]

Yes. Food and lifting heavier poundages.

What is your point? [/quote]

So you think the only thing separating todays BB’ers from 30 years ago is they’re eating more food and lifting heavier weights? My personal opinion is that the only thing separating Phil from Arnold is ultimately PEDs. Maybe the PEDs ALLOWED Phil to lift heavier weights and consume more food that could be synthesized into muscle or some cause and effect, but I cannot believe that if Arnold ate more food and lifted heavier weights he’d be just as big as todays competitors.

Let’s say Arnold and Phil are the same age, and Arnold was actively competing right now. Would his physique be an exact copy of the pictures posted above, or would he be just as big as current competitors?[/quote]

I was referring specifically to the fact that the actual compounds themselves are the same.

And yes, if Arnie ran the same dosages and ate the same calories as today’s competitors he would be the same size.

robstein · June 10, 2015, 6:46pm

Yeah, I’m with you, the compounds are ultimately the same but much higher dosages now. And, agreed, that if Arnold was competing today, and ran the same dosages as current competitors, and could consequently train/eat more, etc., he would look the same. So, for Phil to say this stuff is just ridiculous, because it was a different playing field at that time, (and Arnold did have some great wheels no doubt), because competitors 30-40 years ago weren’t dosing what current BB’ers do.

dt79 · June 10, 2015, 7:34pm

[quote]robstein wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:

[quote]Steez wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:
I never understand how assisted BB’ers can say this kind of nonsense. I think what Phil really means is, “the technology of the PED’s I’ve been able to use is superior and advanced to what was available for Arnold.”
[/quote]

that’s not actually true. The classic steroids that are used by bodybuilders today are pretty much the same as what Arnie and the gang were using. Doses are way higher (supposedly), but the actual compounds are the same for the most part.[/quote]

This is my belief too. Maybe better quality these days with modern technology always advancing. But then you can make the shit in your basement with a basic high school chemistry set. [/quote]

Quality, dosages, whatever the combination is, does anyone think that training specifically, or any aspect OTHER than PEDs could be responsible for the current look of BB’ers?
[/quote]

Yes. Food and lifting heavier poundages.

What is your point? [/quote]

So you think the only thing separating todays BB’ers from 30 years ago is they’re eating more food and lifting heavier weights? My personal opinion is that the only thing separating Phil from Arnold is ultimately PEDs. Maybe the PEDs ALLOWED Phil to lift heavier weights and consume more food that could be synthesized into muscle or some cause and effect, but I cannot believe that if Arnold ate more food and lifted heavier weights he’d be just as big as todays competitors.

Let’s say Arnold and Phil are the same age, and Arnold was actively competing right now. Would his physique be an exact copy of the pictures posted above, or would he be just as big as current competitors?[/quote]

Who has disputed the fact that increases in PEDs are a significant contributory factor? You are acting like it’s the ONLY factor. You think PEDs build the muscle for you?

There are some fucktards on this site who have used MUCH MORE than what Arnold has used to reach 152lbs @5’11. If you don’t believe me, ask Yogi.

To Phil Heath, undertaking the potentially severe health risks, effort, injuries and eating like it’s a fulltime job to build and maintain a 300lb physique is a requirement for HIS LIVELIHOOD. If such size was a requirement during Arnold’s era, I can bet any amount of money Arnold would have taken all the drugs in the world to come out on top. But the fact is, he didn’t have to.

THIS is what Phil was implying in his rant.

This is also why the ex-competitive bodybuilders in the other thread stop maintaining their size after they retire.

Steez · June 10, 2015, 7:24pm

Boo Boo!

dt79 · June 10, 2015, 7:36pm

[quote]Steez wrote:

Boo Boo!

[/quote]

Lol! First time I ever saw Yogi get royally pissed at someone.

Ripsaw3689 · June 10, 2015, 7:39pm

[quote]craze9 wrote:
Did Arnold and his contemporaries take large doses of GH and insulin?[/quote]

I think these compounds, along with higher dosages of the PED’s that have been around for a long time, are the factors that are setting the size bar so high.

dt79, good point about the size requirement for his livelihood. Arnold, being as competitive as he was, would have done anything and everything to keep up his champion status.

robstein · June 10, 2015, 7:47pm

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:

[quote]Steez wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:
I never understand how assisted BB’ers can say this kind of nonsense. I think what Phil really means is, “the technology of the PED’s I’ve been able to use is superior and advanced to what was available for Arnold.”
[/quote]

that’s not actually true. The classic steroids that are used by bodybuilders today are pretty much the same as what Arnie and the gang were using. Doses are way higher (supposedly), but the actual compounds are the same for the most part.[/quote]

This is my belief too. Maybe better quality these days with modern technology always advancing. But then you can make the shit in your basement with a basic high school chemistry set. [/quote]

Quality, dosages, whatever the combination is, does anyone think that training specifically, or any aspect OTHER than PEDs could be responsible for the current look of BB’ers?
[/quote]

Yes. Food and lifting heavier poundages.

What is your point? [/quote]

So you think the only thing separating todays BB’ers from 30 years ago is they’re eating more food and lifting heavier weights? My personal opinion is that the only thing separating Phil from Arnold is ultimately PEDs. Maybe the PEDs ALLOWED Phil to lift heavier weights and consume more food that could be synthesized into muscle or some cause and effect, but I cannot believe that if Arnold ate more food and lifted heavier weights he’d be just as big as todays competitors.

Let’s say Arnold and Phil are the same age, and Arnold was actively competing right now. Would his physique be an exact copy of the pictures posted above, or would he be just as big as current competitors?[/quote]

Who has disputed the fact that increases in PEDs are a significant contributory factor? You are acting like it’s the ONLY factor. You think PEDs build the muscle for you?

There are some fucktards on this site who have used MUCH MORE than what Arnold has used to reach 152lbs @5’11. If you don’t believe me, ask Yogi.

To Phil Heath, undertaking the potentially severe health risks, effort, injuries and eating like it’s a fulltime job to build and maintain a 300lb physique is a requirement for HIS LIVELIHOOD. If such size was a requirement during Arnold’s era, I can bet any amount of money Arnold would have taken all the drugs in the world to come out on top. But the fact is, he didn’t have to.

THIS is what Phil was implying in his rant.

This is also why the ex-competitive bodybuilders in the other thread stop maintaining their size after they retire.[/quote]

Yikes! Listen man, I’m just stating my opinion, I’m not trying to “prove a point” or have a pissing contest. These are forums where we state our opinions, yes? So, my opinion is that PEDs have played the most significant factor in todays BB’ing world of ridiculous size, and I don’t think anyone is disputing that. Obviously they don’t “put on the muscle for you,” with more assistance comes more work to build more size, but I don’t think it’s right for a current bodybuilder to insult the size of a bodybuilder from 30-40 years ago because it’s a different game now.

I do agree with you that size is a bigger factor for success today than it used to be, so the requirements for current competitors are different than they used to be.

dt79 · June 10, 2015, 7:55pm

[quote]robstein wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:

[quote]Steez wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]robstein wrote:
I never understand how assisted BB’ers can say this kind of nonsense. I think what Phil really means is, “the technology of the PED’s I’ve been able to use is superior and advanced to what was available for Arnold.”
[/quote]

that’s not actually true. The classic steroids that are used by bodybuilders today are pretty much the same as what Arnie and the gang were using. Doses are way higher (supposedly), but the actual compounds are the same for the most part.[/quote]

This is my belief too. Maybe better quality these days with modern technology always advancing. But then you can make the shit in your basement with a basic high school chemistry set. [/quote]

Quality, dosages, whatever the combination is, does anyone think that training specifically, or any aspect OTHER than PEDs could be responsible for the current look of BB’ers?
[/quote]

Yes. Food and lifting heavier poundages.

What is your point? [/quote]

So you think the only thing separating todays BB’ers from 30 years ago is they’re eating more food and lifting heavier weights? My personal opinion is that the only thing separating Phil from Arnold is ultimately PEDs. Maybe the PEDs ALLOWED Phil to lift heavier weights and consume more food that could be synthesized into muscle or some cause and effect, but I cannot believe that if Arnold ate more food and lifted heavier weights he’d be just as big as todays competitors.

Let’s say Arnold and Phil are the same age, and Arnold was actively competing right now. Would his physique be an exact copy of the pictures posted above, or would he be just as big as current competitors?[/quote]

Who has disputed the fact that increases in PEDs are a significant contributory factor? You are acting like it’s the ONLY factor. You think PEDs build the muscle for you?

There are some fucktards on this site who have used MUCH MORE than what Arnold has used to reach 152lbs @5’11. If you don’t believe me, ask Yogi.

To Phil Heath, undertaking the potentially severe health risks, effort, injuries and eating like it’s a fulltime job to build and maintain a 300lb physique is a requirement for HIS LIVELIHOOD. If such size was a requirement during Arnold’s era, I can bet any amount of money Arnold would have taken all the drugs in the world to come out on top. But the fact is, he didn’t have to.

THIS is what Phil was implying in his rant.

This is also why the ex-competitive bodybuilders in the other thread stop maintaining their size after they retire.[/quote]

Yikes! Listen man, I’m just stating my opinion, I’m not trying to “prove a point” or have a pissing contest. These are forums where we state our opinions, yes? So, my opinion is that PEDs have played the most significant factor in todays BB’ing world of ridiculous size, and I don’t think anyone is disputing that. Obviously they don’t “put on the muscle for you,” with more assistance comes more work to build more size, but I don’t think it’s right for a current bodybuilder to insult the size of a bodybuilder from 30-40 years ago because it’s a different game now.

I do agree with you that size is a bigger factor for success today than it used to be, so the requirements for current competitors are different than they used to be.
[/quote]

Hey man, I’m not pissed. It’s just the way I write lol. Sorry about that.

DoubleDuce · June 10, 2015, 8:03pm