T Nation

Phantom Jobs/Slow HR

Has anyone else been brought in to interview for a position so the hiring manager can say they jumped through the hiring protocols? I am well aware that internal candidates are often more qualified. However, making someone travel just to hire an internal candidate is horse shit. Do a phone interview and be done with it. If you were hoodwinked into one of these dog and pony shows, did you find the interview panel hostile to outside candidates?

What is the speed of HR turn around that other job seekers have been dealing with? Sometimes it takes up to six months from my experience. The longest I’ve heard was 18 months.

All of these positions of require graduate level education. And yes, I am employed.

Don’t let this stupid bullshit get you down. Move on and consider other options. It’s amateur hour over there anyway, especially if it takes them over a year to make a hiring decision.

I’m lucky if I even hear anything at all. From the responses I have gotten, I’ve only waited at most a month to a month and a half.

I have been a corporate and independent recruiter for most of my career. Capt, your situation sounds like one of two things. Either a disconnect between HR (the people often doing the searches in small to medium even though they aren’t skilled at it or understand the position). Marge in HR sets up an interview for the hiring manager, but the hiring manager never looks at the
Resume.

Or…

The hiring manager jnows they need someone, but they’re not sure who that person is yet so they interview people hopping they’ll “know it when they see it.”

Both of these situations suck for candidates. There is also sometimes company policy required “outside posting/interviews” even when they already have the right person, but that doesn’t happen as much as people think because it is a waste of time for everyone and money for the company.

Or, maybe you just weren’t right for the position or company. Sometimes there are intangibles that effect hiring decisions you can’t control. The company might want a certain personality for a position that you either have or don’t. If you don’t, then you don’t. Again, it sucks but there’s nothing you can do but move on.

[quote]theuofh wrote:
Don’t let this stupid bullshit get you down. Move on and consider other options. It’s amateur hour over there anyway, especially if it takes them over a year to make a hiring decision. [/quote]

Thanks for the reply. I rarely ever get down.

[quote]TheKraken wrote:
I have been a corporate and independent recruiter for most of my career. Capt, your situation sounds like one of two things. Either a disconnect between HR (the people often doing the searches in small to medium even though they aren’t skilled at it or understand the position). Marge in HR sets up an interview for the hiring manager, but the hiring manager never looks at the
Resume.

Or…

The hiring manager jnows they need someone, but they’re not sure who that person is yet so they interview people hopping they’ll “know it when they see it.”

Both of these situations suck for candidates. There is also sometimes company policy required “outside posting/interviews” even when they already have the right person, but that doesn’t happen as much as people think because it is a waste of time for everyone and money for the company.

Or, maybe you just weren’t right for the position or company. Sometimes there are intangibles that effect hiring decisions you can’t control. The company might want a certain personality for a position that you either have or don’t. If you don’t, then you don’t. Again, it sucks but there’s nothing you can do but move on.
[/quote]

I definitely got the feeling some of the HM’s were on fishing trips. I use to say, if I got a face to face interview. I would get the job. Post recession things are a little different.

I’ve seen some disorganized and disgruntled human resources employees. They’re usually women, and I’m always very nice to them. lol

I interviewed for a couple positions where I was not a great candidate. Qualified yes, top tier no. So I understand not being the best fit for the position.

What’s your take on hostile interviews?

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

I definitely got the feeling some of the HM’s were on fishing trips. I use to say, if I got a face to face interview. I would get the job. Post recession things are a little different.

I’ve seen some disorganized and disgruntled human resources employees. They’re usually women, and I’m always very nice to them. lol

I interviewed for a couple positions where I was not a great candidate. Qualified yes, top tier no. So I understand not being the best fit for the position.

What’s your take on hostile interviews?
[/quote]

When some people are out of their comfort zone their nerves turn into assholeness. Panel interviews also sometimes have wierd internal dynamics, power strugles, an subordinate trying to impress by being tough, etc. I’ve been a victim of hostile interviews before. Sometimes you can defuse them by asking, “there seems to be some tension here, are you having a bad day?”

[quote]TheKraken wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

I definitely got the feeling some of the HM’s were on fishing trips. I use to say, if I got a face to face interview. I would get the job. Post recession things are a little different.

I’ve seen some disorganized and disgruntled human resources employees. They’re usually women, and I’m always very nice to them. lol

I interviewed for a couple positions where I was not a great candidate. Qualified yes, top tier no. So I understand not being the best fit for the position.

What’s your take on hostile interviews?
[/quote]

When some people are out of their comfort zone their nerves turn into assholeness. Panel interviews also sometimes have wierd internal dynamics, power strugles, an subordinate trying to impress by being tough, etc. I’ve been a victim of hostile interviews before. Sometimes you can defuse them by asking, “there seems to be some tension here, are you having a bad day?” [/quote]

LOL. Who pissed in your coffee this morning sir?

I do think one of the individuals was trying to impress a superior. I took the hostility as an opportunity to bombard them with my vast knowledge of the subject at hand. It was a very odd interview.

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]TheKraken wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

I definitely got the feeling some of the HM’s were on fishing trips. I use to say, if I got a face to face interview. I would get the job. Post recession things are a little different.

I’ve seen some disorganized and disgruntled human resources employees. They’re usually women, and I’m always very nice to them. lol

I interviewed for a couple positions where I was not a great candidate. Qualified yes, top tier no. So I understand not being the best fit for the position.

What’s your take on hostile interviews?
[/quote]

When some people are out of their comfort zone their nerves turn into assholeness. Panel interviews also sometimes have wierd internal dynamics, power strugles, an subordinate trying to impress by being tough, etc. I’ve been a victim of hostile interviews before. Sometimes you can defuse them by asking, “there seems to be some tension here, are you having a bad day?” [/quote]

LOL. Who pissed in your coffee this morning sir?

I do think one of the individuals was trying to impress a superior. I took the hostility as an opportunity to bombard them with my vast knowledge of the subject at hand. It was a very odd interview. [/quote]

Sorry, I wasn’t referring to you. I meant the company employees doing the interview get uncomfortable and sometimes mean. Some people find the only thing worse than being interview for a job, is the one (or more) who conduct the interview. A lot of company provide no training or guidance for interviewing. It is a skill, not something people are born with.

I am a little cynical about the process because I am searching myself, or was search too. My last position came with a “high falute’n” title, but it did not work out. Now, no one wants to interview me because I look really expensive on paper. So, I’m working for myself now.

BTW–No one pissed in my coffee, there no room in my dainty espresso cup for anything but brunt Italian goodness.

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]TheKraken wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

I definitely got the feeling some of the HM’s were on fishing trips. I use to say, if I got a face to face interview. I would get the job. Post recession things are a little different.

I’ve seen some disorganized and disgruntled human resources employees. They’re usually women, and I’m always very nice to them. lol

I interviewed for a couple positions where I was not a great candidate. Qualified yes, top tier no. So I understand not being the best fit for the position.

What’s your take on hostile interviews?
[/quote]

When some people are out of their comfort zone their nerves turn into assholeness. Panel interviews also sometimes have wierd internal dynamics, power strugles, an subordinate trying to impress by being tough, etc. I’ve been a victim of hostile interviews before. Sometimes you can defuse them by asking, “there seems to be some tension here, are you having a bad day?” [/quote]

LOL. Who pissed in your coffee this morning sir?

I do think one of the individuals was trying to impress a superior. I took the hostility as an opportunity to bombard them with my vast knowledge of the subject at hand. It was a very odd interview. [/quote]

This might seem stupid, but a hostile interview could be a result of the interviewer seeing the candidate as a bigger guy and deciding to test them to see if they are a hot head, or arrogant/cocky. My approach in that situation is to kill them with kindness.

I am just picturing you responding to their hostility with a “bombardment” of knowledge of the subject. To me it is describing an aggressive reaction to an aggressive tactic. Which could be confirming their first impression of you. I have found that a confident yet humble attitude in these situations can defuse the hostility from the intimidated/self-conscious interviewer.

Just giving a different angle on why a hostile interview might take place. I could be wrong though

The amount of hoops and bullshit one must go through for a decent job these days is very depressing. “You’re clearly an expert in the field, but you have a couple of hairs out of place and your tie is 1/32” left of center, you must be stupid and lazy and will not be a good enough for our company because we place a lot of importance on that trivial bullshit which has nothing to do with the job."

[quote]TheKraken wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]TheKraken wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

I definitely got the feeling some of the HM’s were on fishing trips. I use to say, if I got a face to face interview. I would get the job. Post recession things are a little different.

I’ve seen some disorganized and disgruntled human resources employees. They’re usually women, and I’m always very nice to them. lol

I interviewed for a couple positions where I was not a great candidate. Qualified yes, top tier no. So I understand not being the best fit for the position.

What’s your take on hostile interviews?
[/quote]

When some people are out of their comfort zone their nerves turn into assholeness. Panel interviews also sometimes have wierd internal dynamics, power strugles, an subordinate trying to impress by being tough, etc. I’ve been a victim of hostile interviews before. Sometimes you can defuse them by asking, “there seems to be some tension here, are you having a bad day?” [/quote]

LOL. Who pissed in your coffee this morning sir?

I do think one of the individuals was trying to impress a superior. I took the hostility as an opportunity to bombard them with my vast knowledge of the subject at hand. It was a very odd interview. [/quote]

Sorry, I wasn’t referring to you. I meant the company employees doing the interview get uncomfortable and sometimes mean. Some people find the only thing worse than being interview for a job, is the one (or more) who conduct the interview. A lot of company provide no training or guidance for interviewing. It is a skill, not something people are born with.

I am a little cynical about the process because I am searching myself, or was search too. My last position came with a “high falute’n” title, but it did not work out. Now, no one wants to interview me because I look really expensive on paper. So, I’m working for myself now.

BTW–No one pissed in my coffee, there no room in my dainty espresso cup for anything but brunt Italian goodness. [/quote]

The pissed in your coffee remark was in reference to pissy interview panels. I should have given some context. lol

I had the same thing happen in regards to looking really good on paper and not getting the position due to over qualification. The panel was great and offered to help me get a higher ranking position in an area related to my specialty if one became available.

I agree about the lack of training. I’ve been on interview panels and have zero training.

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]TheKraken wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

I definitely got the feeling some of the HM’s were on fishing trips. I use to say, if I got a face to face interview. I would get the job. Post recession things are a little different.

I’ve seen some disorganized and disgruntled human resources employees. They’re usually women, and I’m always very nice to them. lol

I interviewed for a couple positions where I was not a great candidate. Qualified yes, top tier no. So I understand not being the best fit for the position.

What’s your take on hostile interviews?
[/quote]

When some people are out of their comfort zone their nerves turn into assholeness. Panel interviews also sometimes have wierd internal dynamics, power strugles, an subordinate trying to impress by being tough, etc. I’ve been a victim of hostile interviews before. Sometimes you can defuse them by asking, “there seems to be some tension here, are you having a bad day?” [/quote]

LOL. Who pissed in your coffee this morning sir?

I do think one of the individuals was trying to impress a superior. I took the hostility as an opportunity to bombard them with my vast knowledge of the subject at hand. It was a very odd interview. [/quote]

This might seem stupid, but a hostile interview could be a result of the interviewer seeing the candidate as a bigger guy and deciding to test them to see if they are a hot head, or arrogant/cocky. My approach in that situation is to kill them with kindness.

I am just picturing you responding to their hostility with a “bombardment” of knowledge of the subject. To me it is describing an aggressive reaction to an aggressive tactic. Which could be confirming their first impression of you. I have found that a confident yet humble attitude in these situations can defuse the hostility from the intimidated/self-conscious interviewer.

Just giving a different angle on why a hostile interview might take place. I could be wrong though
[/quote]

Maybe they were baiting me? I wouldn’t say my approach was hostile at all, but I was not giving ground on issues where members of the panel were trying to put words in my mouth or twisting factually correct statements. Humility…lol I think I may have to work on that one…

The size issue comes into play fairly frequently IMO. Supervisors are the Alpha Male’s of their respective work places via power structure. Physically however, many are inferior and have a hard time dealing with that fact.

Good perspective.

edited for clarity

Cap do you go into these interviews with the understanding that it will also be a learning experience?

Plus big Corp HR is mired in bureaucracy to much disconnect IMO.

Took Doogie 6 months and he was an internal candidate.

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Cap do you go into these interviews with the understanding that it will also be a learning experience?

Plus big Corp HR is mired in bureaucracy to much disconnect IMO.

Took Doogie 6 months and he was an internal candidate. [/quote]

I’ve unfortunately had to adopt that philosophy after several disappointing results. Many of these positions are getting more than 200 applicants. Many of the HR folks consider you a winner just for getting an interview. That is not my view.

State and federal hiring is extremely slow, not mention corporate HR. Small business remains the quickest way to get hired IMO.

Yea the small ones get you to the big ones it seems like. However that is when things slow down, guys in the field want you to come work for them, but then HR slows it down.

You have been out of school now what 3 years?

[quote]Aggv wrote:
The amount of hoops and bullshit one must go through for a decent job these days is very depressing. “You’re clearly an expert in the field, but you have a couple of hairs out of place and your tie is 1/32” left of center, you must be stupid and lazy and will not be a good enough for our company because we place a lot of importance on that trivial bullshit which has nothing to do with the job." [/quote]

This is very true. There are a significant number of people searching for high paying jobs. The power balance is definitely on the side of the employer IMO.

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Yea the small ones get you to the big ones it seems like. However that is when things slow down, guys in the field want you to come work for them, but then HR slows it down.

You have been out of school now what 3 years? [/quote]

From grad school. I worked professionally for quite a while before returning to the ivory towers of academia…lol

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Yea the small ones get you to the big ones it seems like. However that is when things slow down, guys in the field want you to come work for them, but then HR slows it down.

You have been out of school now what 3 years? [/quote]

From grad school. I worked professionally for quite a while before returning to the ivory towers of academia…lol[/quote]
Yea I meant grad school.

What is your 5 year goal and 10?

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Yea the small ones get you to the big ones it seems like. However that is when things slow down, guys in the field want you to come work for them, but then HR slows it down.

You have been out of school now what 3 years? [/quote]

From grad school. I worked professionally for quite a while before returning to the ivory towers of academia…lol[/quote]
Yea I meant grad school.

What is your 5 year goal and 10?[/quote]

I’ve never really set a time frame. I probably need to sit down and do that.