T Nation

PH/DS Cycle

Hey, I posted in the PH sticky, but didn’t get many responses, so I figured I’d make a thread (though my questions now are differently from my original anyway).

I’m considering using Epistane and I’m wondering the best way to go about it. I’m interested in doing some type of burst/pulse as opposed a straight cycle for a month or longer, but I’m curious as to what the best method would be.

The company that produces Epistane recommends an EOD dosing for pulsing, which I don’t really like the sound of. (Then again I should reserve judgment until I actually try it I suppose.) Now, in the past Bushy and other had recommending high dose of AAS in a pattern like this:

2 weeks on/2 weeks off
2 weeks on/3 weeks off
2 weeks on/4 weeks off
(I have toremefine on hand.)

This what recommend to do with test prop and an oral. How (if at all) should this protocol be altered for Epistane? I was thinking the on and off periods could maybe be shorter since the Epistane has a shorter half life than test prop.

One more question (though A LOT more hypothetical); would something like this be relatively safe to do using two compounds, such as Epistane and a Superdrol clone?

As always, any and all input is always appreciated. Thanks a lot guys.

Before anyone asks, I’ve done AAS in the past and really enjoyed it, but I’ve recently moved and I don’t really want to have to sniff out a new source. I’m also afraid of possibly getting caught making a purchase, especially since I’m a part-time trainer and the authorities would claim I was going to distribute to my clients.

About 4 posts under your one in the sticky is a possible cycle.

[quote]I wrote:
IMHO, all you need is:

4 weeks Havoc

Wk 1 - 10 10 20 20 30 30 30
Wk 2 - 30 30 30 30 30 30 30
Wk 3 - 30 30 30 30 30 30 30
Wk 4 - 40 40 40 40 40 40 40

Then 40/40/20 of Nolvadex/Tamoxifen

and get enough Cycle Support & Liv52 for the 4 week cycle + 3 week PCT. If you can I’d go as far as saying keep the Cycle Support & Liv52 going for one more week past the PCT.

I don’t think Carbolin 19, TRIBEX and Rhodiola are necessary until AFTER the cycle. Maybe start them during PCT and keep going as long as you deem necessary.[/quote]

Well, that’s cool and all, but I was more interested in a higher dose/shorter ‘on period’ cycle that would be less suppressive and require little to no PCT. Maybe that isn’t possible/isn’t recommend with these new designer PH’s/steroids though?

Basically I want to do a few short “burst cycles” like some have done here with short-estered steroids (often with the addition of an oral), but using Epistane and/or a Superdrol clone, but again I don’t know if this is safe, recommendable, or worthwhile.

I’d plan on using a couple liver support sups (Liv-52 and Liver Longer), abstain from all alcohol, and continue to use Alpha Male (the majority of the time). I also have the toremefine on hand. Mostly looking for advice on a proper protocol since the maunfacture recommend EOD for month seems a little lame to me (though I could be totally off base).

I believe IBE was suggesting 40mg 3-4x a week.

BUT I’d still say keep a SERM on hand.

Dr. D from IBE suggests 2 weeks on followed by two weeks off, dosing 40mg EOD. So, some weeks you’d have 3 doses a week, other 4, just by the nature of a week being 7 days.

What I don’t understand is why I could theoretically run a very high dose of test prop and an moderate dose of an oral ED for 2 week bursts and supposedly hardly be suppressed nor need a PCT, but that when it comes to Epistane the best I can hope for is EOD dosing for 2 weeks?

Playing devil’s advocate a bit, do you think that the supplement company is exaggerating the power of their product, or is it really so much more suppressive than a mega dose of test and d-bol/stromba/whatever that their pulse cycling is the only ‘safe’ way to use the product without a PCT? (Theoretically, as stated I have a SERM on hand).

Anyway, maybe I’m just being too ‘greedy’, but to me it just sounds lame to take an oral for a total of 7 days out of 2 weeks and then need a complete 2 weeks off. Just would seem there’d be a more productive way that was still relatively safe. …but I know I shouldn’t judge having not tried it.

Again I am pretty inexperienced with PH’s so if anyone can better explain all this to me please feel free to do so. I’d really appreciate it.

Well I saw over at the Anabolic Minds forum Dr. D is saying there are multiple pulsing methods and EOD dosing was just one them, so apparently you could do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. I’ll have to see if I can get a hold of him to see why (according to the IBE site) a 2 week off period is suggested after 2 weeks of EOD dosing, since apparently it is okay to use Epistane for 2 weeks straight followed by two weeks off.

Anyway, the more I’m uncovering it seems like there are a lot more options than that found on the manufacturers sight, so looks like I jumped to conclusions a bit.

I’m not a fan of IBE, I heard that they had several batches of Epistane that were woefully underdosed. Quite frankly, I think the product should be run as I’ve posted above.

Here is the product detail:

2a,3a-epithio17a methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstane

1100% as anabolic and 91% as androgenic as plain methyl-test. Also apparently acts as a 17b-estradiol receptor antagonist.

Do you think I’d be better off with Havoc if IBE is having problems meeting their label claims?

I would say RPN (Havoc) would be better, yes. They may be a bit more expensive though, and I also hear that IBE is supposed to have fixed their supplier problem.

Also, WRT shutdown, pulsing is meant to avoid it but I can’t say much for the gains. With the dosing protocol I suggested, you WILL get shutdown and you’ll need Tamoxifen.