T Nation

Pervasive Anti-Americanism


A topic that came up at my dinner table last night: Anti-Americanism. To me, it seems like that kind of thinking is more pervaive than ever. I'm not talking about Anti-Bush rhetoric here. I'm talking about the 'America had it coming' and the '9/11 was no big deal' kind of talk. The Ward Churchill 'Little Eichmanns' kind of thing.

To be honest, this website has given me a more clear understanding about just how common this kind of thinking is right now. I have been taken aback by the amount of posts I've seen that take a hard and firm stance against the United States, some coming right out and saying that 9/11 was 'funny' and justified. And for every person saying saying something like this out loud on the radio or on the internet there are ten more people there to call him/her a patriot or a 'hero' for saying it.

And people like me, people who use words like "Anti-American" are called zelots or 'jingoistic'. We sit by and listen to people say that they are glad thousands died on 9/11 or that they are indifferent to the suffering caused that day. And when we question it or take exception to it, we are told that we have no right to question the patriotism of the people saying these things. We are told how much courage it takes to say these things. The fact it that this kind of talk is so ubiquitous and excepted right now, that it take no more courage to say this kind of stuff as it takes to get out of your bed in the morning.

I'm not old enough to remember Vietnam. Was it the same then? Worse? I don't know. Someone tell me.

The reason I bring all this up is because it occured to me yesterday what the nation was like in the days after 9/11. Not like it is now. The nation was angry. Everyone was. No one who was not was even taken seriously. I was trying to remember when it started to change. When the anger was replaced by the desire to just pretend like nothing happened, like we did after the first WTC attack. A few months? A year? I know that many in our nation thought going into Afghanistan was a mistake. I think when the war started and people saw that it was real, they lost their taste for it.

Some people must be predisposed to dislike America. And I'm talking about Americans here. If America acts to protects itself, it citizens: America is evil. If America is the victim of an attack: We had it coming. If America runs into trouble while waging war" Good! If the world hates America: Yeah! I do too! I just DO NOT understand it and I can't remember seeing it before. Can anyone else?

One thing that will stir the pot, but I did say it to my wife last night. Pissed her off, but I'll stand by it. I said, "One thing that all of these people who are out there saying that 'we had it coming', 'america is evil', etc. have in common is that they are all liberals.'

My wife reacted with indignant shock (even though she is not a liberal). I reminded her that I did not mean to say that all liberals feel this way, probably a small percentage do. But all of the people - at least as far as I have observed - who say this kind of thing, all 'happen' to be liberal.

Anyone know of any conservatives who subscribe to this kind of thinking?


it's not just liberal's...I believe the god hates fag's idiots are conservative, and didn't a couple of conservative Christian leaders say that the the reason we were bombed was god punishing us for tolerating homosexuals. I know many said the same thing about Katrina. It's not just the left is evil it's the fringes. The people that are way to far right or left. The people that say if your not with us your against us.


Most of the world feels towards us like Wreckless does --- no matter what we do, we're evil. The problem is that America is the first country created by reason and not by chance or a club.

We especially remind the rest of the world of what THEY COULD BE, if they had balls and brains. Sure, we're not perfect, but who is? We are the most moral and most noble country on earth and this will forever be a reproach against the immoral, the slothful, and the just plain evil in the rest of the world.

God bless (and has blessed!) the United States of America, God's strong right hand here on earth!!


Excellent points!


God does not have favorites.

It is blasphemous to say otherwise.


Didn't say that. God created this country to be the guiding light of the world. Notice how its been the USA to slowly expunge evil, disease, poverty, hatred, from around the globe. Germany is peaceful and productive as is Japan. China and India have adopted capitalism (in various forms), and the USSR is gone.

Someday, most people of the world will enjoy a peaceful, clean, healthy middle-class American lifestyle.

Will they thank us?

Those who hate life, like those who bomb us today, don't want those things. They worship and want death. We'll provide that for them too and for that the world should DEFINITELY thank us.

God Bless Our Noble Country!!



Are you going to tell us that God told you that?

The voices you hear are not God speaking to you.


just middle class? that's some form of socialism, isn't it? it's at least one of our more modern democrat ideals. no poor...but no rich either! what if these people want something more and are willing to work for it? do they only get the middle-class american life? or can they get an upper-class, well-to-do lifestyle if they work hard enough. i know it's not fair to the guys flipping burgers and the streetcleaners out there if dr. lifesaver has a big house and big income...well..that's not good for anyone.

i thought washington and adams and jefferson created america? here it was god all the time?


I'm actually referring to the sweep of technology. Just as you live better than a feudal king, technology will give the things listed above to the bulk of the world's population. The USA leads the way.

As for socialism, you can see that I praise capitalism above. I'm no socialist, if you read my post carefully.

The FFs were inspired by God, expressed as pure logic (see Spinoza). The country is a product of reason, as created by God. True, they were deists, not Christians; but the whole edifice is pure dedeuctive logic: "We hold these truth to be self-evident...". In other words, here are our axioms. The rest is logically deduced.




I find it to be just another reason for people to bitch about their own failures in life. They are transferring their hate for their own life into a topic that is near and dear to many hearts. It is just another way to stick it to the man to show the world that they are different then the rest. Attention whores.



I bet there was some drunken Roman talking like this in a bar somewhere...right before Nero became Emperor.

If God could be for us, than who could be against us?


9/11 is a result of support for Israel. Say what you want about whether we should or shouldn't support Israel, but just realize that 9/11 is a product of that.

Every action has a reaction. Even we can't escape that, no matter how large our Army or how threatening our sabers sound.


And they had the good sense to put "In GOD We Trust" on our money. Wonder why?


Because as long as religious superstition is an important part of politics, a politician is well advised if he plays that tune?


That was actually added in 1956 during the red scare.


Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

Bin Laden and his thugs do not hate our freedoms. They aren't jealous of us. They don't want to kill us because we are "infidels".

If any of you actually took the time to read his speeches (which aren't published in our newspapers), he clearly states the reason for his anger is our support of Israel. He states his anger started in the early 80s when we stood by and let the Israelis destroy Beirut.

Of course this will never be debated here in our media, since the one freedom we don't have here is debating whether or not our support for Israel is justified, since the minute you question that you are labelled as an "anti-Semite" or a "self-hating Jew" if you happen to be Jewish.


Sounds like you need to open a history book Bro, the "In God We Trust" statement was actually added in 1864, not 1956.



And what Bin and you don't understand is that the US has been instrumental in holding Israel back from doing much more damage than they have in the past to all the Arab nations around them. Having them as an ally means we have more control over their actions then as a enemy.

Look at recent 6-day war in 1967, Israel kicked ass against Egypt, Jordan, Syria, etc. They took a lot of land during that war, that at the urging of the US, they later gave back.

So we have actually helped these Arab nations around Israel more than Bin seems to understand.


Well kiss my grits you are correct sir.

I must have confused that with the fact that it wasn't changed to our national motto until 1956.


I think that "...one nation, under God..." was added to the pledge in the 50's.


It was, in order to seperate us from the supposed "godless" communists.