T Nation

Peri-Workout Nutrition


#1

Didn't want to bump the old thread, as it's old and long by now, I hope it's ok.

CT,
Which option would work better before training until I can get my hands on large quantities of FINiBARs(probably a couple of boxes once I get a chance):

A) 50g powdered oats, 25g palatinose, 25g waxy maize starch (can't get rice oligodextrin anywhere in UK, unless I decide to hydrolyze some rice starch on my own...), 25g whey, 1g electrolyte powder (I can give you the exact breakdown of the powder if you want) - somewhat imitating 2 FINiBARs, 80g carbs, 30g protein and 5g fat or so

B) 30g waxy maize starch, 25g palatinose, 25g D-glucose, 1g electrolyte powder - so more along the lines of a bit more than 2 scoops of Surge (minus the AAs, which I'm getting during the workout anyway), 80g of carbs

C) Same as B but added 25g whey

Bonus question - What is the most FINiBARs you have had before training and how did it go?

Thanks,
B.


#2

Bump?


#3

Options (A) and (C) are the better options. I'd say go for the cheaper route that still meets your calorie needs and is consistent with your goals (unless the expense is not a major issue).

I know I'm not CT, but the most FINiBARS I've ever had is the three required in Protocol number one. I suppose four or five would be fine if more like 5500 to 6000+ calories a day are needed. It all depends on your goals. If you want more mass, go for more calories. If you want more definition, go with less calories. Either way, there are numerous approaches that can work.

As a side note, I'm currently just using Whey Isolate/Whey Concentrate, L-Leucine Powder, Creatine Monohydrate Powder, and applesauce, raisins and bananas to keep my insulin spiked before and during training. I have to save up more money for the Protocol again.

-Eric


#4

Yeah, that's what I thought. Still not sure which one out of the two is better. (A) is definitely cheaper (bulk supermarket oats + an old Ukranian coffee grinder keep the costs down :P) and that's the one I'm going for now, unless someone more in the know says (c) is significantly better. I'm going for about 2-2.5 FINiBARs worth of carbs (80-100) starting from next week, should be enough for someone my size (170 lbs). If not, I'll bump it up after a couple of weeks.

The more than 3 FINiBARs question was more out of curiosity - would it be beneficial under any circumstances, or just overkill resulting in unnecessary fat gain. Might try it at some point with actual FINiBARs (2011 probably) for a couple of weeks and report back :slight_smile:

I'm doing quite well with my own concoction consisting of (in addition to the liquid FINiBAR imitation) Peptopro, several different amino acids, creatine and whatnot. It turns out I'll get a chance to earn quite a bit of money (for a student at least) this summer. Planning to save some of it and hopefully go to the US for a conference next year (if there is one...) and get the full ANACONDA Protocol to compare results (if I can figure out how to get an order delivered to a conference). I honestly believe it's overkill for me (I am giving it all I've got in the gym, but let's face the facts - I am 170lbs and I'm planning to get "definitely big", not "insanely huge", not that there is anything wrong with either), but curiosity is just killing me and I have to try it, even if it's just once :slight_smile:

B.


#5

my opinion...

quality > quantity but i would say you need to increase the protein. i didnt calculate it all but it doesnt look like much


#6

I went for approximately the same amount as there is in Finibars - 13g per Finibar, so two Finibars give 26g. I'm putting 25g of whey in. Plus, if one wants to get picky, Oats provide another 1.5g per 10g or so (yeah, not complete, but still something). I'm getting the rest of my workout protein from PeptoPro/amino acids later on.

B.


#7

Ohhhhh my bad i re-read your initial post. didnt see the peptopro part. how much protein are you getting from that and what type is it?


#8

About 50g of regular unflavoured DSM PeptoPro + about 45g of various amino acids, some creatine and beta alanine, split into approximately 1/4 before workout, 1/2 during and 1/4 after. You can see where I took my "inspiration" from :smiley:

B.


#9

ahh well im no expert but that seems like a pretty good para-workout protocol to me.

how's it working so far (energy, fullness, how your sessions are going, if it sits well etc...)?


#10

Well, I've only been using it in this form (although with carbs reduced by about a half) for the last 6 weeks or while trimming the love handles I stupidly gained while following a silly 3 times per week TBT routine with absolutely no other physical activity during the rest of the week for a couple of months. So my experiences with it are only in a caloric deficit (until next week, when I'm bumping them up significantly for gaining). But I can tell you this:

On all the exercises I was concentrating on fixing my form more than adding weight. I succeded on just about every one, so I must have gotten stronger - for example my squats went from doing 2 sets slightly below parallel, 1 parallel and 2 slightly above parallel (all ramped) to 3 well below parallel (I won't say ATG because one guy at my gym goes lower than I think I can go with or without any weight!) and 2 slightly below parallel, all ramped with same weights as before. Same with other exercises, all while going dropping 0.5-1 kg of fat per week on average.

I definitely haven't lost any muscle and have probably gained a little.

My strength sessions (3 per week, the other 2 are conditioning and I don't use the full protocol) have generally been going very well. Even on very low calories I don't feel tired until the very end and I have no problems with recovery. That's in spite of technically squatting 5 times a week (Monday and Friday back squats, Wednesday machine hack squats, Tuesday and Saturday very light squats as part of a complex).

I've had 0 problems with it sitting in my stomach. I dissolve the carb blend in about 300-500ml of water (depending on the amount of powder) and the PP/AA blend in two 700ml shakers (hoping to get 1L ones soon). Hell, I'm often quite thirsty within 30 minutes of finishing a session, so the fluid intake is definitely not too high.

That being said, I am missing out on several benefits on the Anaconda protocol - Alpha GPC, rice oligodextrin, creatine pyruvate, plus the CHY Biotest uses is apparently better than PeptoPro. And, of course, Anaconda P. doesn't require you to mix so many different things together before every session.

I will have enough money to try Anaconda at least once this summer, but I am planning to wait for two reasons. First, I would have to pay the ridiculous shipping costs and taxes to get it to the UK, second I honestly think I need more experience before I can fully benefit from it. Within a year or two I'll probably get a chance to visit the US and if I'm happy with my progress by that point I'll come back with the full package. And several boxes of FINiBARs. Then I'll give it a try, dig out my old logs and compare the results.

B.


#11

interesting... thanks for the response and good luck with the gaining

i've been cutting for what seems like forever so i feel your pain


#12

Thanks. Good luck cutting.

B.