T Nation

Peri Workout and GH


#1

Ok so here was a burning question I had. Note past tense.

"In the CBL diet/program one is advised not to consume carbs pre and during workout" The purpose of this is to not blunt the release of GH post workout. About half hour after you can cram the carbs until bed...yada yada yada.

The question was Peri Workout Nutrition is one if not the most emphasised point on TNation. That being the case why does John Kiefer recommend otherwise. After all he too is backing up his points with science.

The result and bluntly put by CT (thanks for that) was and I quote:

"NO PERI FOR GH RELEASE AND HITTING YOURSELF WITH A HAMMER...: Hitting yourself with a hammer will increase GH production, starvation JACKS UP GH levels... are these two things conductive to muscle growth? People make the mistake of looking at the "first level" without considering the whole physiological response. Not having a peri-workout to avoid blunting GH release makes as much sense as not consuming any protein because the leucine might increase insulin release."

Oh and he had one other thing to add:

MORE ON NO PERI TO AVOID BLUNTING GH RELEASE: Not having a peri-workout protocol to avoid blunting GH release is kinda like no working to avoid getting robbed of the money you make

What i get from this is the CBA of peri workout to no peri workout is light and day, true/false and more importantly why?

Also

Can someone expand or point me in the right direction as to why below is the case?

"whey and malto are not the same as cyclic dextrin and casien hydrolysate"

Thanks TN, look forward to the replies.


#2

It depends. It’S this simple. CT says nutrients are more important than GH, Kiefer says GH>nutrients. Just as Ferruggia says don’t bench press and De Franco says don’t military press… The human body is a complex thing and experts will often disagree based on conflicting research and/or experience. Pick a small number of people to listen to and follow them; otherwise the information overload will make you spin your wheels.


#3

CT just has the best analogies sometimes :slight_smile:

S


#4

I’d love to hear Brick’s thoughts on this, or really periworkout in general.


#5

Read nutrition-related articles and books.
Experiment.
Decide what’s best for you.
What’s so damn difficult ?


#6

Thanks for the response guys.

@Tol;

  1. I read the articles, hence the confusion/question.

  2. Why should I need to experiment every little thing if the experts are doing that for me. If everyone just experimented then there is no need to have experts in the field.

  3. Well you really haven’t answered the question, I did not ask you a very basic question like how do I lose fat? nope! In fact i’d like to think I asked a sensible enough question. Comparing two credible authorities on their opposing theories.

but thanks anyway.


#8

So I haven’t got the casein hydro or cyclic dextrin so I had to use what I had…the verdict = WOW! what a workout, significant energy and increased strength all through out the session.

What I did:

30 min Pre Workout;
30g Whey & 50g Maltodextrin

During Workout
30g Whey 7 50g Maltodextrin

Post workout:
As usual a massive meal;
450g Chicken, 6 egg omlette, 400g rice - oh and two cheeky bitesize homemade donuts, tiny little things.

I was sweating quite a fair bit more than usual (normally, no matter how hard I work I sweat very little). The weights felt light(ish) even though I was lifting a little less the week before and they felt heavy then.

How I felt this morning:

Definitely a lot tighter, more ripped but most significantly… a dick-load fuller! The muscles felt really hard and pumped.

Is this what is to be expected?


#9

[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
So I haven’t got the casein hydro or cyclic dextrin so I had to use what I had…the verdict = WOW! what a workout, significant energy and increased strength all through out the session.

What I did:

30 min Pre Workout;
30g Whey & 50g Maltodextrin

During Workout
30g Whey 7 50g Maltodextrin

Post workout:
As usual a massive meal;
450g Chicken, 6 egg omlette, 400g rice - oh and two cheeky bitesize homemade donuts, tiny little things.

I was sweating quite a fair bit more than usual (normally, no matter how hard I work I sweat very little). The weights felt light(ish) even though I was lifting a little less the week before and they felt heavy then.

How I felt this morning:

Definitely a lot tighter, more ripped but most significantly… a dick-load fuller! The muscles felt really hard and pumped.

Is this what is to be expected?

[/quote]

Great results. I went with the hydo casein & BCAA’s peri-workout today. Big leg workout tomorrow so might throw in some dextrose as well.


#10

Very interesting! I’ve actually been wondering deifferent kind of peri nutrition as well, just because I still have a shit ton of it. This is what I do now:

Bunch of different shit all amino actually, ends up being:
24g bcaa 10g glutamine 5g creatine 2.8 taurine 2g citrulline malate

I have a 15lb bucket of pure carbo max which 28g of carb per serving, I’ve been adding 1 serving of that onto my peri drink and the first time I felt an extreme difference (must of been mental) because today I did it again and just didn’t feel it, but then again it might of been the way I stacked my workout, it was pretty shitty… Felt pretty fatigued.


#11

I made sure I had a MASSIVE post workout meal to compensate for the more intense session. Maybe I’m still buzzing from the session, but I feel really energized even today.

As soon as I notice some fatigue I will up my calories; hopefully that will negate the effects somewhat. Would that work?


#12

[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
So I haven’t got the casein hydro or cyclic dextrin so I had to use what I had…the verdict = WOW! what a workout, significant energy and increased strength all through out the session.

What I did:

30 min Pre Workout;
30g Whey & 50g Maltodextrin

During Workout
30g Whey 7 50g Maltodextrin

Post workout:
As usual a massive meal;
450g Chicken, 6 egg omlette, 400g rice - oh and two cheeky bitesize homemade donuts, tiny little things.

I was sweating quite a fair bit more than usual (normally, no matter how hard I work I sweat very little). The weights felt light(ish) even though I was lifting a little less the week before and they felt heavy then.

How I felt this morning:

Definitely a lot tighter, more ripped but most significantly… a dick-load fuller! The muscles felt really hard and pumped.

Is this what is to be expected?
[/quote]

All that on the first go’round? Perhaps you were carbohydrate starved.


#13

[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
I made sure I had a MASSIVE post workout meal to compensate for the more intense session. Maybe I’m still buzzing from the session, but I feel really energized even today.

As soon as I notice some fatigue I will up my calories; hopefully that will negate the effects somewhat. Would that work? [/quote]
The thing that I probably did wrong was that I had a shake afterwards… Cuz my intra WO was pure amino acid and carbs… Lol, and I did realize that too, when the workout is very demanding and fatiguing I tend to cheat or want “extra cals”


#14

[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
I made sure I had a MASSIVE post workout meal to compensate for the more intense session. Maybe I’m still buzzing from the session, but I feel really energized even today.

As soon as I notice some fatigue I will up my calories; hopefully that will negate the effects somewhat. Would that work? [/quote]
And no, I’m pretty sure upping any cals won’t help the case.


#15

@ BCT:

Not sure if that is the case. I followed Carb-backloading so not sure if ‘carb starved’ was the reason.

Once again did the same thing for shoulders…manic!

I’ll keep this up and let you know how it goes.


#16

Good deal! Do you mind taking some pics of what u got? I’ll do the same too :slight_smile:


#17

Pics of what I got? the supps?

It’s nothing impressive. I am running a low budget so it’s just budget Whey and budget Maltodextrin.


#18

[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
Pics of what I got? the supps?

It’s nothing impressive. I am running a low budget so it’s just budget Whey and budget Maltodextrin.[/quote]
This is just the “amino acid” club… Lol


#19

Normal! lol


#20

[quote]TrapsLatsnHat wrote:
Normal! lol

[/quote]
Biotest supps not included


#21

Sorry for the delay. Attached is my collection of supplements; yeah I don’t use many. lol