T Nation

Perfect 10 vs. ???



I am putting together a specialty routine around arms. I am 5'6", 220, and my arms are 17" and moderate BF levels. I have always wanted to get to 18", so time for some specilization. Was wondering what anyone's experience has been on Perfect 10, EDT for Arms, CT's emphasis rotation for that muscle group, etc.

I am leaning toward P10 as I have never tried that level of frequency, but wanted to hear others results. Thanks!


In the past four years- I've doen EDT for Arms twice and Great Guns (Ian King's program) twice. I highly recommend both of them. Try 'em both (give yourself a few month in between each program). Good luck and enjoy the exquisite pain.


Just remember something in order for you to get bigger arms...your going to have to have to probably go up to 235 to get 18" arms...

Rule of thumb is 15 lbs for every one inch.


That 15lb rule sounds like something from a myth from a muscle magazine. n I've recently gained a half inch on my arms and only went up 3.5 lbs. Guys who believe the 15lb rule end up getting fat, but they got those fat 18" arms too! Gymnast's arms grow and you don't see them gain 15lbs to do it.

I'm pretty sure you could get that size without putting that much on the scale. It takes a great diet with proper nutrient timing and specialization of training.


Perfect 10 is a brilliant program to use on your arms. I've always had the hardest time putting any size on my arms at all even though the rest of me grows, my arms have always lagged behind and I've just finished perfect 10 and I've put on almost two inches on my arms in 9 weeks and I also gained 12lbs.

CW knows his stuff


I agree with Ihategymmorons. If you always need to add 15 lbs of lean mass, what's the point of doing an arm specialization routine? Won't any hypertrophy routine put that inch on as long as you gain 15 lbs?


Think Tank, what did you use for your maintenance routine for the rest of your body while on P10? 2 inches - thats phenomenal! Congrats on some solid work. Do you feel the gains are holding up? Sometimes with high volume programs my arms swell from inflamation, but after leaving them alone return to normal. I dont think I have ever gotten a 2 inch swell though!!


Hopefully the gains will stick I only finished it about a week ago.

For maintenence I did very little since I used several compound moves for the heavy day. What extra work I did do was deadlifts 5x5 and 3x8 once a week on chest,shoulders,back and abs.

But I really enjoyed the program since every workout was short it left me feeling fresh.


Did you test your max for all 10 exercises or did you just wing it?

How did you cycle the 10 exercises? I want to try this one day.


I was going to reply to the Perfect 10 thread about my results and still might but Think Tank Fish and I have had very similar results. I have added nearly 2 inches to my arms in the last 9 weeks of Perfect 10 too. I just finished the program this past Saturday.

Not only am I impressed with the size difference in my arms but also the muscle density and shape; awesome! The best my arms have ever looked. I too have been concerned about losing size afterwards so I wanted to give it a week or 2 before speaking up, but after seeing TTF's post I wanted to chime in too.

CW IS a training Genius! I can't wait for his book.

I highly recommend Perfect 10.



Did you get stronger in addition to getting bigger? Thanks.


That's some hardcore gains Assbuster! What did you use for the rest of the body in terms of work load/frequency/etc?


To answer DT20's question:

My strength increased on Barbell Curls and Triceps Extensions by 50 lbs respectively. The first 4 weeks my elbows were sore as hell. I plowed through the pain and was rewarded for the effort.

To answer CRisenhoover's question:

I worked the rest of my body on a 5 day split using 5 X 5 parameters just to maintain my muscle mass and not over train, only working 1 and no more than 2 additional muscle groups per day. Here is a sample:

Upper Back Day

Weighted Chins 3 X 5
Narrow Grip T-Bar Rows 2 X 5

Shoulder and Traps Day

Seated Dumbbell Presses 3 X 5
Dumbbell Side Lateral Raises 2 X 5
Barbell Shrugs 3 X 5

Chest Day

Flat Bench Presses 3 X 5
Incline Bench Presses 2 X 5

Leg Day

Squats 3 X 5
Stiff Leg Deadlifts 2 X 5
Standing Calf Raises 3 X 5
Donkey Calf Raises 2 X 5


Arm day.

Varied according to Perfect 10 Parameters.


Arm day.

Varied according to Perfect 10 Parameters.

Keep in mind almost every day depending on what the Perfect 10 parameters called for I worked arms in with the other body parts. As you'll see in Perfect 10 you'll also have AM sessions too so you end up working arms twice a day plus whatever muscle group you had planned to work in addition.

These are just a sampling of exercises selections during this 9 week period. I like to mix things up. I train a lot on instinct, so I might use a compound joint movement or a single joint isolation exercise, the exercise selection isn't etched in stone. However, I always train the muscle group(s) planned for the day but depending on how I feel I might change the exercise selection I had planned.

I also mixed in some H.I.T. cardio 3 days a week in the early mornings on training days that didn't require a Perfect 10 AM session or on non weight training days.

I hope this answers you're questions. Best of luck with Perfect 10. If I can help with anything else feel free to ask.



Wow!! Those are huge stength gains!!! No, actually they are beyond huge gains!! It's incredible.


I'm on the 5th week of P10 Chest/Back. So far this program has been incredible for hypertrophy. By the time I'm done gains in my chest will definitly exceed 2" pumped. If yall got any questions ask, IMO this is the best hypertrophy program to bring up a lagging muscle group, most effective program I've used yet.

Unlike others I've only felt a little sore once yet my size gains have been incredible. This might have to do with the fact I'm 18, taking 10g glutamine, I rarely get sore in uperbody, and nutrition intake is up to par.



What kind of exercises are you doing? Are you using ice to help the muscles recover? I want to bring up my back, but don't know how I can apply the ice cup to it.


My P10 Looks Like This:
1a. T-bar Row
1b. Dumbell Flys

2a. Wide Grip Row
2b. Incline Barbell Press

3a. Wide Grip Lat Pull Down Palms Facing Out
3b. Dips

4a. One Arm Row Dumbells
4b. Decline Dumbell Bench

5a.Close Grip Lat Pull Down Palms Facing In
5b. Barbell Bench

Tonight is the first time ice massage is perscribed, my gym partner is going to assist me in that. I've actually forgot to stretch once for post workout, and still didn't feel sore, but I'm sure during the AM/PM's (starting today) I'll feel a little sore. But I'm not complaining gains with no pain, hell yea!


anyone else have some P10 or other specilization results to share?


I didn't test my repetition maxes but had a fairly good idea where to start since i've used alot of CW's programs in the past but I would recomend that you stay on the lighter side of loading since on some of the heavier days I found it hard to stick to the weight. For that reason its probably best to test out your rep maxes before starting the program.

With the exercise selection I just wrote down a list of every bicep/tricep exercise I could think of and picked it on the day.


Think Tank Fish and Assbuster, how are the gains sticking? Have you returned to a more general program without the high frequency specilization?