Penn/Hughes

After his fight with Hughes, Penn was anxious to fight again. Unknown to most fans of the sport is how underhanded(my opinion) the UFC can be with their fighters, sometimes even their champs. They did not tell Penn when his next match was going to be and frustrated with waiting, scheduled a fight against Duane Ludwig in a K-1 bout four months after his fight with Hughes. Upon entering this matchup, the UFC found him in violation of his contract and voided it, also stripping the belt in the process.

UFC contracts have stipulations in there that blatantly favor the organization. They’ll sign you for say three fights, but have the option to cut you loose from this contract after any loss. Also, upon winning a belt, you are automatically retained under UFC contract and are prohibited from fighting in another promotion. This is very prohibitive towards the fighters, especially when you’re looking to have matches and they are dicking you around on the scheduling.

Still not as bad as K-1 can be towards their guys if Bob Sapp is to be believed.

Also, the Hughes fight was the last one on Penn’s contract, though there was that clause automatically retaining him because he had won the belt.

Gentlemen, my point exactly. He was screwed out of his belt.

When BJ brings his A-game, there isn’t another 170 or 155 lber in the world who can touch him, PERIOD.

BJ for president.

[quote]slimjim wrote:
After his fight with Hughes, Penn was anxious to fight again. Unknown to most fans of the sport is how underhanded(my opinion) the UFC can be with their fighters, sometimes even their champs. They did not tell Penn when his next match was going to be and frustrated with waiting, scheduled a fight against Duane Ludwig in a K-1 bout four months after his fight with Hughes. Upon entering this matchup, the UFC found him in violation of his contract and voided it, also stripping the belt in the process.

UFC contracts have stipulations in there that blatantly favor the organization. They’ll sign you for say three fights, but have the option to cut you loose from this contract after any loss. Also, upon winning a belt, you are automatically retained under UFC contract and are prohibited from fighting in another promotion. This is very prohibitive towards the fighters, especially when you’re looking to have matches and they are dicking you around on the scheduling.

Still not as bad as K-1 can be towards their guys if Bob Sapp is to be believed. [/quote]

You find this sort of “dictatorial” process in any organization that has basically no competition.

What would be good for the mma world in this country is one more organization which could give the UFC a run for its money…literally.

Actually, while I don’t know the man Dana White reminds me of a bully and a lout. I’d actually like to see BJ fight him.

:slight_smile:

The UFC needs competition in the US. Pride, IFL and Strikeforce(and Inoki) should band together. Strikeforce has used Pride fighters. They should offer free downloads of Chuck’s fight with Rampage. Rich’s fight fight with Machida, Randy’s fight with Overeem.

Replay and replay to influence people to think that maybe these guys are not the best around.
Get Frank Shamrock into the ring.
Seems people have been easily influenced by Dana’s tactics.

[quote]slimjim wrote:
Royce Gracie is not recognized as the best jiu-jitsu practioner in the Gracie family, let alone the world. You guys who have only seen fights in North America need to get off of that legend.

I’m so tired of debating the GSP-Penn decision…to say GSP won is true only of the way the judges saw the fight…I don’t know how anyone could truly have won that fight. They both got paid reasonably well for it so I suppose they were both winners…trying to justify GSP’s rank in the welterweight division using that victory is also misleading because GSP did nothing more than sit on Penn, no way in hell he gets by like that against Hughes. [/quote]

To those of you who think I was actually serious about my belief that Royce Gracie is one of the best jiu-jitsu practicioners in the world or even the country, please note my strong usage of quotation marks and the label I made up for him on the spot…pure sarcasm fellas.

The only reason I brought it up was simply to show that Hughes is not a one trick pony, and that he is somewhat versatile, contrary to closeminded beliefs.

[quote]otoko wrote:
bigblue244 wrote:
t3h_Squirr3l wrote:
Nobody can beat BJ Penn except BJ Penn…and Fedor.

I know you weren’t serious with that quote, but I understand what you are trying to say. While Penn did defeat Hughes, he lost to GSP, who lost to Hughes, so making any sort of statement proclaiming who would win out of these three is pretty much a crap-shoot, and in my opinion, could only be decided with an actual fight.

My reasoning comes from recently watching Hughes completely dominate the legend and “best jiu jitsu artist in the world…” Royce Gracie, on the ground none-the-less, to an easy TKO. He also, in his defeat of GSP, submitted him with an arm-bar, which I think further exemplifies Hughes’ growing repetoire of skills while simultaneously quelling his critics proclaiming his “one-dimensional-ish” talents. With GSP, after his loss to Hughes, we see he has defeated Jason Miller, Trigg, Sherk, and Penn, all top notch welterweights. These victories do nothing but affirm that he is at the top of his game and it also reinforces my belief that Hughes, with his quick and impressive arm-bar submission of GSP who is otherwise immune to submissions, is at the top of his game as well.

I’m not saying Penn isn’t as good as GSP or Hughes, I am simply saying that making an assumption or proclamation that Penn is the Champion and would easily defeat Hughes or beat GSP in a rematch is a little absurd, and the discussion itself is somewhat arbitrary.

Let the flaming begin,

bigblue

I don’t think anybody was saying that Penn is the champ. I appreciate Penn’s talent and his guts to fight anybody regardless of weight.
Hughes is the champion. Though bringing in his victory over Royce to prove a point is not convincing. Rather I think you are a victim of Dana White’s propaganda. Royce could barely beat Hideo Tokoro. Though most people in America do not seem to know this. If you watched that fight you would not have thought Royce had a chance against Hughes.
I would like to see Penn fight GSP and Hughes again. He has the talent to beat those guys.If he comes in shape. Penn started at lightweight, and he has even fought Ryoto Machida(losing a decision) who comes in at 205. The same Machida who beat up Rich Franklin.[/quote]

And no, I was not fooled by Dana White’s tactics. I think he is an idiot and am not your typical American UFC fan that doesn’t know shit about anyone else or any other fight league.

And yes, I have seen the Royce Gracie Hideo Tokoro numerous times so please don’t make assumptions, I guess it was my fault not making it clear that I was being severely sarcastic about Royce’s skills.

[quote]bigblue244 wrote:
otoko wrote:
bigblue244 wrote:
t3h_Squirr3l wrote:
Nobody can beat BJ Penn except BJ Penn…and Fedor.

I know you weren’t serious with that quote, but I understand what you are trying to say. While Penn did defeat Hughes, he lost to GSP, who lost to Hughes, so making any sort of statement proclaiming who would win out of these three is pretty much a crap-shoot, and in my opinion, could only be decided with an actual fight.

My reasoning comes from recently watching Hughes completely dominate the legend and “best jiu jitsu artist in the world…” Royce Gracie, on the ground none-the-less, to an easy TKO. He also, in his defeat of GSP, submitted him with an arm-bar, which I think further exemplifies Hughes’ growing repetoire of skills while simultaneously quelling his critics proclaiming his “one-dimensional-ish” talents. With GSP, after his loss to Hughes, we see he has defeated Jason Miller, Trigg, Sherk, and Penn, all top notch welterweights. These victories do nothing but affirm that he is at the top of his game and it also reinforces my belief that Hughes, with his quick and impressive arm-bar submission of GSP who is otherwise immune to submissions, is at the top of his game as well.

I’m not saying Penn isn’t as good as GSP or Hughes, I am simply saying that making an assumption or proclamation that Penn is the Champion and would easily defeat Hughes or beat GSP in a rematch is a little absurd, and the discussion itself is somewhat arbitrary.

Let the flaming begin,

bigblue

I don’t think anybody was saying that Penn is the champ. I appreciate Penn’s talent and his guts to fight anybody regardless of weight.
Hughes is the champion. Though bringing in his victory over Royce to prove a point is not convincing. Rather I think you are a victim of Dana White’s propaganda. Royce could barely beat Hideo Tokoro. Though most people in America do not seem to know this. If you watched that fight you would not have thought Royce had a chance against Hughes.
I would like to see Penn fight GSP and Hughes again. He has the talent to beat those guys.If he comes in shape. Penn started at lightweight, and he has even fought Ryoto Machida(losing a decision) who comes in at 205. The same Machida who beat up Rich Franklin.

And no, I was not fooled by Dana White’s tactics. I think he is an idiot and am not your typical American UFC fan that doesn’t know shit about anyone else or any other fight league.

And yes, I have seen the Royce Gracie Hideo Tokoro numerous times so please don’t make assumptions, I guess it was my fault not making it clear that I was being severely sarcastic about Royce’s skills.[/quote]

I did not realize you were being sarcastic. I apologise then for making assumptions.
I just have gotten used to people saying Tim Sylvia/Chuck Liddell/Royce Gracie are the best fighters on the planet, without sarcasm.
Even Dana White said he wanted to see how good Fedor really is by seeing him fight in the UFC. Dana said he doesn’t know much about him. No integrity.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

You find this sort of “dictatorial” process in any organization that has basically no competition.

What would be good for the mma world in this country is one more organization which could give the UFC a run for its money…literally.

Actually, while I don’t know the man Dana White reminds me of a bully and a lout. I’d actually like to see BJ fight him.

:slight_smile:
[/quote]

I’m with ya on that. I do believe the UFC has made great strides for MMA in North America…we were on the brink of having it completely wiped out here. But they have been a bit tyrannical in many of their dealings of late.

The IFL has been putting on a good production for free on FSN. The quality of their fighters is actually pretty good, and the fights have been exciting. Almost like a minor league MMA if you will, with good commentary and production.

Check out this fight card from the WFA on July 22nd in California:

Bas Rutten vs Kimo
Quinton Jackson(the same one who knocked the crap out’ve Chuck Liddell)
vs Matt Lindland(the same guy who was a no 1 contender in the middleweight division before being forced out of the UFC)

Lyoto Machida(that’s right, THE Lyoto Machida of Rich Franklin and BJ Penn fame) vs Vernon White

Jason “Mayhem” Miller(please don’t bring up his fight vs GSP, he took the fight with two weeks notice and had to cut an extra 15 lbs since he usually fights at middleweight, he is a quality fighter and very entertaining) vs Lodune Sincaid(former TUF competitor)

Ivan Salaverry vs Art Santore

Ricco Rodriguez(former UFC HW champ) vs Ron Waterman

there are even more fights on the card, but top to bottom, this has got to be the best total card ever put together in the US.

If you’re wondering why Tito and BJ all got back into the UFC, it is my opinion that Dana White recognized a rising threat from the WFA(World Fighting Alliance) and realized he needed to get his house in order. I don’t know why the UFC let Ivan Salaverry go after one crappy decision loss. The guy is a great submissions fighter. I’m not all that excited to see Bas returning, not that he won’t be in fighting shape, but I don’t like to see champs come back after retiring…rather see them go out on top.

Quinton Jackson is back with Team Punishment, I hope he’s found the fire again as I’d like to see him romp thru the LHW division, giving Dana White headaches like the one he gave Chuck in their last fight. And Lindland deserved better from the UFC anyway.

I’m hoping the PPV is going to be 40 bucks and the advertising for this gets out there as this would give the UFC some definite competition.

[quote]slimjim wrote:

Penn was forced out by the UFC, he did not just walk away.[/quote]

What is the story behind this?

[quote]ConanSpeaks wrote:
slimjim wrote:

Penn was forced out by the UFC, he did not just walk away.

What is the story behind this?[/quote]

Nevermind, I finally read the whole thread.

[quote]bigblue244 wrote:
slimjim wrote:
Royce Gracie is not recognized as the best jiu-jitsu practioner in the Gracie family, let alone the world. You guys who have only seen fights in North America need to get off of that legend.

I’m so tired of debating the GSP-Penn decision…to say GSP won is true only of the way the judges saw the fight…I don’t know how anyone could truly have won that fight. They both got paid reasonably well for it so I suppose they were both winners…trying to justify GSP’s rank in the welterweight division using that victory is also misleading because GSP did nothing more than sit on Penn, no way in hell he gets by like that against Hughes.

To those of you who think I was actually serious about my belief that Royce Gracie is one of the best jiu-jitsu practicioners in the world or even the country, please note my strong usage of quotation marks and the label I made up for him on the spot…pure sarcasm fellas.

The only reason I brought it up was simply to show that Hughes is not a one trick pony, and that he is somewhat versatile, contrary to closeminded beliefs.[/quote]

Sorry, didn’t realize you were being sarcastic.