Peace on Earth, Well not Today.

Off Topic
21

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Streamline, I think you’re a well intentioned guy but the road to hell…

…and you’re full of excrement from male bovine creatures if you think good, sound corporal punishment is a bad deal. Ye know not of what ye speak.[/quote]

Would the source you pulled this info from happen to be your ass?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_3_102/ai_89388984

http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/1401/Causes-Effects-Child-Abuse-CORPORAL-PUNISHMENT.html

Nearly every study I found show clear, negative effects of corporal punishment. Those that are hit as children are more likely to have learning problems, and to have more violent tendancies than those who were not.

22

[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
Streamline go fuck yourself man. FFS beat your children.

My parents never hit me I got the friggin 2-6 hour disappointment lecture that was a bajillion times worse. I wish my parents had just hit me so it would of been done with and I could of gone out to play. Trust me you don’t want to sit down in the chair in the middle of the kitchen all Family Matters style. It sucks sooooooo bad.[/quote]

I used to get BOTH. Mom would give the guilt-down and Dad would lay the smack down. This was highly effective and cut my misbehaving by 78.439%.

Fact is, none of you know what the fuck you’re talking about, and neither do I. Raising kids is a crap shoot, and there is a 100% chance that something you’re doing is going to buy some psychotherapist a new Mercedes when little Johnny or Jane is old enough to realize how fucked up you made them.

25

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
Streamline go fuck yourself man. FFS beat your children.

My parents never hit me I got the friggin 2-6 hour disappointment lecture that was a bajillion times worse. I wish my parents had just hit me so it would of been done with and I could of gone out to play. Trust me you don’t want to sit down in the chair in the middle of the kitchen all Family Matters style. It sucks sooooooo bad.

I used to get BOTH. Mom would give the guilt-down and Dad would lay the smack down. This was highly effective and cut my misbehaving by 78.439%.

Fact is, none of you know what the fuck you’re talking about, and neither do I. Raising kids is a crap shoot, and there is a 100% chance that something you’re doing is going to buy some psychotherapist a new Mercedes when little Johnny or Jane is old enough to realize how fucked up you made them.[/quote]

This is hilarious.

I had the same exact thing, except the roles were reversed in my family. Plus, i’d get punished for weeks at a time.

In my case, I got desensitized to everything and when I got a little older I started laughing at my mom and blocking her hands whenever she’d come after me.

For some reason she didn’t find it as funny as I did. Actually, it drove her almost into madness.

26

You’re saying that not hitting your kids will bring peace? Children these days never get smacked anymore (atleast a whole lot less than 20+ years back). Have you seen how kids act these days? That’ll only bring more and more war and shit.

27

We need to hit children more.

We also need to start hitting adults.

28

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You see, J, all of the above is a clear cut swipe that goes beyond a mere difference of opinion on how to raise kids. It’s an accusation of malignancy if you do things the way you and I do…you’re a bad person; a bad person that does not love your kids as much as he, the Condescending One, does.

[/quote]

I agree and that level of condescension makes my teeth ache. However, it is like any major disagreement such as evolution/creationism or abortion. People have very dearly held beliefs and someone on the internet will not change their mind nor should they. It just gets into a pissing contest. Since I don’t have a dick to lay on the table, I decline to partake.

I do, however, agree with the poster that say none of us really knows what we’re doing or how our children will turn out. I’ve had many discussions with my mother in which she said she wishes she had done some things differently. She did the best she could with the information she had and it was damn good. It’s all any of us can do.

29

[quote]pushharder wrote:

How many kids have you raised to adulthood, little guy? If the answer is zero, state it now so we can have some perspective and therefore determine your place on the totem pole in this discussion. I’ve raised two.[/quote]

None

I love it when people try to attack the person who is arguing, instead of the argument. In my experience, this usually means the person is completely full of shit.

You could raise a thousand children to adulthood for all I care, that doesn’t make violence as a tool for learning any more justifiable.

EDIT:
The only experience I bring to the table is babysitting for a family for a few years back when I was a teen. I saw the kids (5yo and 9yo) more than the parents back then. The parents usually used corporal punishment as apposed to other, less violent methods.

Under my watch, the children were never swatted (even though the parents urged me to) instead I took away things they desired if they were acting up. After a while the kids became more passive, hit each other less, threw shit around the room less.

Just because swatting your kids worked for you, doesn’t mean it was the best method.

“Daddy hits me because he loves me.”

30

You see be speaking from the perspective of someone who was hit with the intention of causing physical harm.

My parents spanked me when I was a kid if I screwed up bad, or I got slapped on the hand. It certainly didn’t make me grow up into a crazed monster who hits other people.

If a parent loves their child, there physical reprimands won’t cause physical harm, it will cause very momentary pain.

If a parent doesn’t love their kid, they will scream and smack them around.

The hitting isn’t the problem, it is the parents, the love that they show, the way they issue the punishement, the fairness they show in it.

Case in point - My parents would always explain why I was getting hit, the hit would always be less painful then the tackles I got playing football and only hurt for a whopping 60 seconds, and it would always end with a hug and an ‘I love you’ (although I was usually to POed at getting in trouble to care.)

Very CareBear-ish, yes, but it’s how they choose to do it, since as kids, they were both beat by their parents (as in, blackeyes, passing out, etc.)

My nephews: their parents are deadbeats. They never tell their kids that they love them. They get slapped and punched and kicked around for everything. One is in high school and has already been arrested on assault charges. The others will follow. They have no stable, caring base.

There is far more involved then just a swat on the butt to make someone go bad…

31

People - there is nothing wrong with hitting children. It is not the hitting that causes problems, it is losing control. Hitting them because you cannot cope. There is nothing more frightening and disturbing to a kid than seeing an adult - their role model - not being able to cope.

Especially not be able to cope with them. THAT is bad. You either teach them that the world is a formidable place or you teach them that they can mess with people and turn them in to little shits.

If you hit them for their own good honestly they will know it and appreciate it. Although if you make it clear to them what and why then you prob. don’t need to hit them.

32

[quote]Squiggles wrote:
There is far more involved then just a swat on the butt to make someone go bad…[/quote]

x2.

I deserved every hiding i got growing up, they taught me right from wrong.

They were always; hand, bum or leg, and never did any real damage, and they were always out of discipline, never anger or rage.

I always knew, it hurt them more then me.

33

Streamline, I agree 100% My mother beat the hell out of me as a kid. Do I remember what for? In all honesty, I have no clue! One day recently she said she was sorry and with the same breath that she was justified.

Being a better person, I left it alone. I am also a firm believer in karma. People will get what they reap someday, in this world or the next.

The thing is, humans are supposed to be on a higher level of thought species. I often wonder how that can be watching people do what they do to each other.

Being on a higher level of thinking, why is it most parents cannot think of another way of punishing a child other than TO PHYISCALLY DOMINATE them? My mother beat me until the day I stood up for myself and I threatened to beat her.

I will be a better human and break that chain when I have my own kids. The tricky part is meeting a 6? girl who takes care of herself :slight_smile:

[quote]streamline wrote:
Not tommorrow or the day after. Not next week, month, or year. Fact there will be no peace on Earth, until we stop hitting our childern.

This is the way I see it. I we teach our children that hitting is wrong. Then we hit them for being bad (or wrong).

This is the message the child will get. It’s not okay to hit, unless someone does something wrong (or bad). Then you can beat the crap out of them.

As long as we teach our children. It is easier to do physical damage than it is to talk things out. We are guaranteed to have wars.

I know this concept is very difficult for some people to rap their heads around. It’s true however, and I don’t see it happening in my life time. Fact is, it may never happen. It can happen, it is possible.

I did my part. I broke the chain of violence that plagued my childhood. As did my older brother but not my sister or younger brother (the religious ones).

I dare people to love their children so much, that it would be impossible to hit them. The guilt would be to great.

I know many are not going to agree with this. To those all I have to say is, I’ll bet you feel all big and strong when you’re laying a beating on someone 1/10 your size. Now that’s an asshole not a T-Man.

You all can try. But there is zero justification for striking someone so small. Someone who can not understand what is going on. Because their little brains have not developed to that level of understanding.

To those who do understand, may the road you travel be as understanding as you are. I wish you and yours all the best in everything you do! [/quote]

34

My parents spanked me very rarely, and always clearly explained what I had done wrong and what I could have done instead. My father related to me later that he knew my brother and I would one day grow up to be bigger than him, so he knew pain couldn’t be our primary teacher.

My parents got really creative with punishment, actually. When I punched a hole in the wall, I had to fix it. All of it. Another time (and this is in high school), my parents basically found out I had a girl come over to the house while they were gone.

So I had to wear this neat little rope necklace, and when people asked me why I was wearing the necklace, I had to tell them.

I never got caught after that.

35

I’m with Magarhe to a large extent.

I’m going to practice some corporal punishment, but not the way it was dealt to me.(Hopefully)

The drunken rage/hitting with objects stuff didn’t do much except teach me to use fear and violence to get my way. I also learned that if you want to avoid a beating, don’t get caught.

A swift crack on the ass? Sure.

A violent beating with whatever you can get your hands on for no apparent reason? Nope. Not good.

Interestingly enough, just being firm and unwavering with doing what I said and holding the kids to it, like sending them to their room or removing a priveledge, and not budging from that discipline has worked very well with my neices and nephews.

They will crack wise and disrespect their parents, but they have always been very responsive to me. They know for a fact that I wont budge an inch no matter what tantrum they’ve thrown or how much whinning they’ve done.

37

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Streamline, I agree 100% My mother beat the hell out of me as a kid. Do I remember what for? In all honesty, I have no clue! One day recently she said she was sorry and with the same breath that she was justified.

Being a better person, I left it alone. I am also a firm believer in karma. People will get what they reap someday, in this world or the next.

The thing is, humans are supposed to be on a higher level of thought species. I often wonder how that can be watching people do what they do to each other.

Being on a higher level of thinking, why is it most parents cannot think of another way of punishing a child other than TO PHYISCALLY DOMINATE them? My mother beat me until the day I stood up for myself and I threatened to beat her.

I will be a better human and break that chain when I have my own kids. The tricky part is meeting a 6? girl who takes care of herself :slight_smile:

streamline wrote:
Not tommorrow or the day after. Not next week, month, or year. Fact there will be no peace on Earth, until we stop hitting our childern.

This is the way I see it. I we teach our children that hitting is wrong. Then we hit them for being bad (or wrong).

This is the message the child will get. It’s not okay to hit, unless someone does something wrong (or bad). Then you can beat the crap out of them.

As long as we teach our children. It is easier to do physical damage than it is to talk things out. We are guaranteed to have wars.

I know this concept is very difficult for some people to rap their heads around. It’s true however, and I don’t see it happening in my life time. Fact is, it may never happen. It can happen, it is possible.

I did my part. I broke the chain of violence that plagued my childhood. As did my older brother but not my sister or younger brother (the religious ones).

I dare people to love their children so much, that it would be impossible to hit them. The guilt would be to great.

I know many are not going to agree with this. To those all I have to say is, I’ll bet you feel all big and strong when you’re laying a beating on someone 1/10 your size. Now that’s an asshole not a T-Man.

You all can try. But there is zero justification for striking someone so small. Someone who can not understand what is going on. Because their little brains have not developed to that level of understanding.

To those who do understand, may the road you travel be as understanding as you are. I wish you and yours all the best in everything you do!

[/quote]

Just because a parent spanks their kid on occasion doesn’t mean it’s the only way they punish their kid. I stood in the corner, washed the car, pulled weeds far more times then I got spanked. Hell, sometimes I asked them if they could just spank me instead, because I knew it wouldn’t really hurt, and it would be over in 2 seconds, versus pulling damn thistles for 45 minutes, which I HATED.

Unfortunately, your mother did not physically punish you, she simply physically beat you - very big difference. I know it’s hard to do, and thus I don’t fault you for not being able to because of what you went through, but understand: for kids that are being swatted on the butt for being bad, it’s nothing like what you went through - it’s not the same thing.

What you went through was a beating. What I used to ask for over pulling weeds was not, and it didn’t have any emotional or physical effects, it was simply a punishment that got the point across and then everyone went on with their lives and forgotten about 5 minutes later as I went back out with my friends.

I’m against people beating their kids, I’m against people screaming and smacking their kids, or even spanking them in the heat of anger because it can take it to far. I’m not against a love tap.

39

Everyone bravely remembers the punishments they recieved growing up.

Here’s a little news for you. You don’t remember the ones you got between 1 and 6 or even later. Your memory has zero correlation of the two (cause & effect). It is unlikely that you ever realized why you were being punished. Therefore there is no memory of punishment.

What you would learn to do is justify what was done to you. It couldn’t be concidered wrong or bad because your parents loved you. So it was you that was wrong or bad. Doing the things that every kid does.

Time outs are not for the sake of the child. It’s the cooling down period for the adult. Children are smart, in time they will understand everything your telling them. Hitting them only weakens the bond between you.

There are those children that truly love their parents and the others that respect their parents. I wonder which is which?

40

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Shaved wrote:
pushharder wrote:

There would be little difference than if you went on one of the bodybuilding threads and started telling folks about building mass when you have little mass yourself. It just doesn’t mean that much.

Not trying to hurt your feelings but doing some babysitting doesn’t even remotely qualify you to submit an opinion that should be carefully considered…even if it happened to be a good one.

[/quote]

Wrong.

You don’t have to actually raise kids to know whether striking a child is right, or wrong. Just because you gave up other, less violent alternatives doesn’t make you King Shit on the subject.

It’s clear that you want to attack the credibility of the person arguing than to attack the credibility of the argument. Calling me both “little guy,” and “junior” clearly show this. I am not offended by either, it says more about you than me.

Is there an actual argument coming any time soon, or is “I did it, so I must be right” the best you can do?