T Nation

Peace Loving American Muslims

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,274934,00.html

Actually found this as no shock, just further evidence of the deep seeded corruption spreading through out Islam in this day and age all around the world.

Hang on, let me say it! It’s Israel’s fault!

Um, geez. Let’s see… uh, how about “They’re not really Muslim, just pretending to be!”? Or, “Bush drove them to it!”? Yeah, that’s probably it.

[quote]pat36 wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,274934,00.html

Actually found this as no shock, just further evidence of the deep seeded corruption spreading through out Islam in this day and age all around the world.

Hang on, let me say it! It’s Israel’s fault![/quote]

And its the evil America’s fault. If they wouldn’t have all those bases around the world and didn’t support those Jews it would all be good(This is going to be lixy’s reply).

[quote]John S. wrote:
pat36 wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,274934,00.html

Actually found this as no shock, just further evidence of the deep seeded corruption spreading through out Islam in this day and age all around the world.

Hang on, let me say it! It’s Israel’s fault!

And its the evil America’s fault. If they wouldn’t have all those bases around the world and didn’t support those Jews it would all be good(This is going to be lixy’s reply).[/quote]

So they hate us for our freedoms then?

[quote]pat36 wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,274934,00.html

Actually found this as no shock, just further evidence of the deep seeded corruption spreading through out Islam in this day and age all around the world.

Hang on, let me say it! It’s Israel’s fault![/quote]

From your “source”:

The study found that among the nation’s younger Muslims, 26 percent say homicide bombings can at least rarely be justified “in order to defend Islam from its enemies.”

The line between “at least rarely” and “never” is very thin. Is it any surprise that today’s kids, with the attention span of hummingbirds, don’t see it? Of course, it’s very disturbing to see the hatred growing on both sides, Polarization is rampant thanks to the “war on terror”. I’m curious what those numbers were pre-2001.

The overwhelming response is that the questions were somewhat ambiguous. There’s no way 1/4 of Muslims (American ones no less!) would say things such 9/11 or 7/7 were in ANY way justifiable.

“To believe that Palestinians are justified in retaliating and fighting back is a different animal than attacking America,” said Ihsan Bagby, an Islamic studies professor at the University of Kentucky and an adviser to the Pew Research Center poll. “One does not have any security implications for America, and the other is a localized struggle to fight an occupier.”

Now, remind me again how many Americans thought bombing the hell out of Iraq was justified “in order to [insert latest hype here]”.

Could it be the war on terror is alienating American Muslims too? Hell, even I think its ok and I am not Muslim. War is war. You can call it terrorism if you want. These are “freedom fighters”. I can make up doublespeak too.

I know many American Muslims their families from Turkey and Iran and they do not support extremist views at all. In fact the Iranian immigrants actually think that Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons. Their parents came here to escape the revolution. From what I read in the news I think Muslims in America are much more moderate than European Muslims. What I mean is I read articles about how British Muslims held up signs saying ‘Death to Britain’ even though they’re in Britain. But I have never read an article in which American muslims have protested like that.

Hmm, that’s fairly low. When compared to polls in the UK, that is. Europe has some very serious problems coming up in the next generation or two.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Could it be the war on terror is alienating American Muslims too? Hell, even I think its ok and I am not Muslim. War is war. You can call it terrorism if you want. These are “freedom fighters”. I can make up doublespeak too.[/quote]

I pointed out once that its hypocritical for someone to call anyone in Iraq resisting the American occupation a “terrorist” or “insurgent”, while they themselves would do the same if America were invaded.

The thread quickly died when another liberal poster berated me for my “unthoughtout insults”, in an attempt to make sure Zap and all the other smart conservatives didn’t think he’d agree with such a “troll” (troll, on T-Nation, is defined as: anyone whos views don’t coinice with user Zap Branigans).

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Could it be the war on terror is alienating American Muslims too? Hell, even I think its ok and I am not Muslim. War is war. You can call it terrorism if you want. These are “freedom fighters”. I can make up doublespeak too.

I pointed out once that its hypocritical for someone to call anyone in Iraq resisting the American occupation a “terrorist” or “insurgent”, while they themselves would do the same if America were invaded.

The thread quickly died when another liberal poster berated me for my “unthoughtout insults”, in an attempt to make sure Zap and all the other smart conservatives didn’t think he’d agree with such a “troll” (troll, on T-Nation, is defined as: anyone whos views don’t coinice with user Zap Branigans).[/quote]

Ah, good question. If my country was ruled by a dictator who committed mass murder upon his people I’d welcome the occupiers. Especially if they set up a process where I’d participate in choosing representatives in my new government. Hell, I’d roll out the welcoming carpet.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Could it be the war on terror is alienating American Muslims too? Hell, even I think its ok and I am not Muslim. War is war. You can call it terrorism if you want. These are “freedom fighters”. I can make up doublespeak too.

I pointed out once that its hypocritical for someone to call anyone in Iraq resisting the American occupation a “terrorist” or “insurgent”, while they themselves would do the same if America were invaded.

The thread quickly died when another liberal poster berated me for my “unthoughtout insults”, in an attempt to make sure Zap and all the other smart conservatives didn’t think he’d agree with such a “troll” (troll, on T-Nation, is defined as: anyone whos views don’t coinice with user Zap Branigans).[/quote]

By the way, I call the insurgency terrorists because they’re attempting to thwart the ELECTED Iraqi government’s efforts to secure the nation.

I wonder how many Americans polled would say it is “at least rarely” acceptable to have civilian casualties when bombing the piss out of other countries.

Fox News definitely know how to spin a story.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Ah, good question. If my country was ruled by a dictator who committed mass murder upon his people I’d welcome the occupiers. Especially if they set up a process where I’d participate in choosing representatives in my new government. Hell, I’d roll out the welcoming carpet.[/quote]

Depends. Allow me to elaborate.

a) If you were a separatist or politically active, then yes. You’d probably welcome the invasion.

b) If you were just a regular guy trying to get by selling scarfs on the market to feed his family, I think you would curse the US everyday of the week. Think about it: How many car bombs you had pre-2003? How many terrorists were there in Iraq? How many innocent civilians lost their lives to American shells? Were your kids scared on their way to school? Was you wife shunning the market?

Guess who makes up the crushing majority of Iraqis. Case a) or b)?

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Ah, good question. If my country was ruled by a dictator who committed mass murder upon his people I’d welcome the occupiers. Especially if they set up a process where I’d participate in choosing representatives in my new government. Hell, I’d roll out the welcoming carpet.

Depends. Allow me to elaborate.

a) If you were a separatist or politically active, then yes. You’d probably welcome the invasion.

b) If you were just a regular guy trying to get by selling scarfs on the market to feed his family, I think you would curse the US everyday of the week. Think about it: How many car bombs you had pre-2003? How many terrorists were there in Iraq? How many innocent civilians lost their lives to American shells? Were your kids scared on their way to school? Was you wife shunning the market?

Guess who makes up the crushing majority of Iraqis. Case a) or b)?[/quote]

Wait a second…

you mean we’re supposed to take into account the way the average Iraqi citizen has been affected by the invasion/occupancy?

Shouldn’t they be able to ignore the negative impact on their own lives in order to welcome the US for broader reasons?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Could it be the war on terror is alienating American Muslims too? Hell, even I think its ok and I am not Muslim. War is war. You can call it terrorism if you want. These are “freedom fighters”. I can make up doublespeak too.

I pointed out once that its hypocritical for someone to call anyone in Iraq resisting the American occupation a “terrorist” or “insurgent”, while they themselves would do the same if America were invaded.

The thread quickly died when another liberal poster berated me for my “unthoughtout insults”, in an attempt to make sure Zap and all the other smart conservatives didn’t think he’d agree with such a “troll” (troll, on T-Nation, is defined as: anyone whos views don’t coinice with user Zap Branigans).

By the way, I call the insurgency terrorists because they’re attempting to thwart the ELECTED Iraqi government’s efforts to secure the nation. [/quote]

No, fool, they’re trying to get an INVADING ARMY out of their country, the same fucking way you would if China invaded the United States.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Could it be the war on terror is alienating American Muslims too? Hell, even I think its ok and I am not Muslim. War is war. You can call it terrorism if you want. These are “freedom fighters”. I can make up doublespeak too.

I pointed out once that its hypocritical for someone to call anyone in Iraq resisting the American occupation a “terrorist” or “insurgent”, while they themselves would do the same if America were invaded.

The thread quickly died when another liberal poster berated me for my “unthoughtout insults”, in an attempt to make sure Zap and all the other smart conservatives didn’t think he’d agree with such a “troll” (troll, on T-Nation, is defined as: anyone whos views don’t coinice with user Zap Branigans).

Ah, good question. If my country was ruled by a dictator who committed mass murder upon his people I’d welcome the occupiers. Especially if they set up a process where I’d participate in choosing representatives in my new government. Hell, I’d roll out the welcoming carpet.

[/quote]

Good post.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Ah, good question. If my country was ruled by a dictator who committed mass murder upon his people I’d welcome the occupiers. Especially if they set up a process where I’d participate in choosing representatives in my new government. Hell, I’d roll out the welcoming carpet.

Depends. Allow me to elaborate.

a) If you were a separatist or politically active, then yes. You’d probably welcome the invasion.

b) If you were just a regular guy trying to get by selling scarfs on the market to feed his family, I think you would curse the US everyday of the week. Think about it: How many car bombs you had pre-2003? How many terrorists were there in Iraq? How many innocent civilians lost their lives to American shells? Were your kids scared on their way to school? Was you wife shunning the market?

Guess who makes up the crushing majority of Iraqis. Case a) or b)?[/quote]

Even people in the b) group should not support suicide bombings against civilians.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Ah, good question. If my country was ruled by a dictator who committed mass murder upon his people I’d welcome the occupiers. Especially if they set up a process where I’d participate in choosing representatives in my new government. Hell, I’d roll out the welcoming carpet.

Depends. Allow me to elaborate.

a) If you were a separatist or politically active, then yes. You’d probably welcome the invasion.

b) If you were just a regular guy trying to get by selling scarfs on the market to feed his family, I think you would curse the US everyday of the week. Think about it: How many car bombs you had pre-2003? How many terrorists were there in Iraq? How many innocent civilians lost their lives to American shells? Were your kids scared on their way to school? Was you wife shunning the market?

Guess who makes up the crushing majority of Iraqis. Case a) or b)?

Wait a second…

you mean we’re supposed to take into account the way the average Iraqi citizen has been affected by the invasion/occupancy?

Shouldn’t they be able to ignore the negative impact on their own lives in order to welcome the US for broader reasons?
[/quote]

Yet lixy’s poll says 47% of Iraqis believe the US invasion was justified and the majority of Iraqis want the US troops to stay at least until things are stabilized.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Sloth wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Could it be the war on terror is alienating American Muslims too? Hell, even I think its ok and I am not Muslim. War is war. You can call it terrorism if you want. These are “freedom fighters”. I can make up doublespeak too.

I pointed out once that its hypocritical for someone to call anyone in Iraq resisting the American occupation a “terrorist” or “insurgent”, while they themselves would do the same if America were invaded.

The thread quickly died when another liberal poster berated me for my “unthoughtout insults”, in an attempt to make sure Zap and all the other smart conservatives didn’t think he’d agree with such a “troll” (troll, on T-Nation, is defined as: anyone whos views don’t coinice with user Zap Branigans).

By the way, I call the insurgency terrorists because they’re attempting to thwart the ELECTED Iraqi government’s efforts to secure the nation.

No, fool, they’re trying to get an INVADING ARMY out of their country, the same fucking way you would if China invaded the United States.[/quote]

No “fool,” the elected government of Iraq has requested our presence. Repeatedly. We are now there to provide some security until Iraqi security forces can stand on their own.