Please critique my PCT workout and nutrition plan as I want to keep as much muscle as possible.
I am 37 and I have been working out for at least 15 years off and on. I started my cycle at 215 12% body fat and my current weight is 250 16 to 17% body fat. During my cycle, I worked out at least 5 to 6 times a week, and the weight I used fluctuated from low to high reps and 5 sets per exercise. My diet was high in carbs, protein and fat.
Here was my cycle:
1-12 weeks Test Enanthate 500mg Monday & Thursday injection
1-12 weeks Arimidex throughout the cycle 0.5mg ED
My PCT nutrition will consist of high complex carbohydrates, high protein, and low fat 40-40-20 ratio. I will keep my calories high and eat for the calorie requirement of a 250 pound man. My PCT workout regime will be 3 sets per exercise. I will be utilizing 4 reps for the first 2 weeks using 60 to 80 % of my 1 rep max. The next two weeks I will use 8 â?? 10 reps 3 sets per exercise utilizing 60 to 80% of my 1 rep max. I am not for sure about cardio as of yet maybe 20 to 30 minutes 3 times a week to trim some fat.
In addition should I use nolvadex or a test taper?
14-18 week nolvadex 40/40/20/20 or test taper for 12 weeks 100 for the first 6 weeks and then taper down from there the last 6 weeks.
[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
Food alone doesn’t count as Post Cycle Therapy - you need nolvadex as you outlined it. I wouldn’t do that taper thing. [/quote]
Can you explain why you choose to use nolvadex as a PCT as opposed to using a taper?
Taper is great for really long cycles but not necessary for the cycle you have outlined. Besides kinda hard IMO to taper with tenth, prop would be easier. Nolva is the best choice for pct, also adex dosage is pretty high unless your really sensitive to e2. I’d run it .25 mg eod or .5 e3d and then gradually taper off through pct to prevent e rebound.
Taper is great for really long cycles but not necessary for the cycle you have outlined. Besides kinda hard IMO to taper with tenth, prop would be easier. Nolva is the best choice for pct, also adex dosage is pretty high unless your really sensitive to e2. I’d run it .25 mg eod or .5 e3d and then gradually taper off through pct to prevent e rebound.
[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
Food alone doesn’t count as Post Cycle Therapy - you need nolvadex as you outlined it. I wouldn’t do that taper thing. [/quote]
Can you explain why you choose to use nolvadex as a PCT as opposed to using a taper? [/quote]
“Nolvadex in certain tissues can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogen, activating the receptor. In men, nolvadex acts as anti-estrogen in its capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes.”
This sounds better than continuing to take the same suppressive compound (albeit in a reduced dosage) from which one is already trying to recover from being suppressed.
“Nolvadex in certain tissues can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogen, activating the receptor. In men, nolvadex acts as anti-estrogen in its capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes.”
This sounds better than continuing to take the same suppressive compound (albeit in a reduced dosage) from which one is already trying to recover from being suppressed.[/quote]
Good post! anwsered my question very well.
If you look around people have lots of good things to say about using a taper. Makes sense it would be good to taper for longer cycles. a long cycle would require a longer recovery period correct?. What length of cycle would you say using a taper would be ok or better? Or in your opinion is that never the case?
The faster you can turn your testies back on the better.
Sorry for the hijack. taper Vs Novla PCT may be a good thread topic
“Nolvadex in certain tissues can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogen, activating the receptor. In men, nolvadex acts as anti-estrogen in its capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes.”
This sounds better than continuing to take the same suppressive compound (albeit in a reduced dosage) from which one is already trying to recover from being suppressed.[/quote]
Good post! anwsered my question very well.
[/quote]
One thing to consider is that SERMs (especially clomid, but perhaps nolva as well) can create severe estrogenic side effects in SOME men–emotionally and physically. This is due to the fact that your body is actually flooded with estrogen (it is just not binding at all sites).
Reports of rampant mood swings, random crying, depression are the emotional side effects. Erectile disfunction would be the physical one that I can think of off the top.
Keep in mind these are rare (especially with nolva) but due effect some men.
That said, I think I would probably prefer SERM as the PCT just to get it over with quicker–seems a lot more economical than test taper.
Be sure you actually taper your SERM to keep from unleashing the flood gates.
[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
Food alone doesn’t count as Post Cycle Therapy - you need nolvadex as you outlined it. I wouldn’t do that taper thing. [/quote]
Can you explain why you choose to use nolvadex as a PCT as opposed to using a taper? [/quote]
Does tapering control estrogen? [/quote]
You REALLY should read the taper thread before making any comments on the topic.
[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
Food alone doesn’t count as Post Cycle Therapy - you need nolvadex as you outlined it. I wouldn’t do that taper thing. [/quote]
Can you explain why you choose to use nolvadex as a PCT as opposed to using a taper? [/quote]
Does tapering control estrogen? [/quote]
You REALLY should read the taper thread before making any comments on the topic. [/quote]
What about it Bonez? I’m honestly curious if you think a taper off of a 12 week test e cycle is a better idea than a traditional SERM pct? Or a taper with a SERM is ideal? I always thought of the taper as something more suited for a longer cycle… all said and done, when you’re complete with the taper, you will have spent an equal amount of time tapering off (with the waiting period included) as you were on cycle for a 12 week cycle.
That was a rhetorical question, by the way in that previous post.
[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
Food alone doesn’t count as Post Cycle Therapy - you need nolvadex as you outlined it. I wouldn’t do that taper thing. [/quote]
Can you explain why you choose to use nolvadex as a PCT as opposed to using a taper? [/quote]
Does tapering control estrogen? [/quote]
You REALLY should read the taper thread before making any comments on the topic. [/quote]
What about it Bonez? I’m honestly curious if you think a taper off of a 12 week test e cycle is a better idea than a traditional SERM pct? Or a taper with a SERM is ideal? I always thought of the taper as something more suited for a longer cycle… all said and done, when you’re complete with the taper, you will have spent an equal amount of time tapering off (with the waiting period included) as you were on cycle for a 12 week cycle.
That was a rhetorical question, by the way in that previous post. [/quote]
So youre saying youve read the thread?
How in the world is that a rhetorical question?
Does a SERM control estrogen? NO, it doesnt. It prevent estrogen from biding at the breast tissue. Im not sure what that question was even supposed to imply, as a rhetorical question.
Please read the taper thread. There is more to it than just lower the dose of T incrementally. Your comment about the time spent tapering shows you dont really have an understanding of the pros/cons of it.
Or you could have just answered my question. I don’t see any sort of evidence other than Prisoner saying “research shows” concerning whether there is actually no HPTA suppression during 100mg/wk of testosterone.
As for SERM controlling estrogen? of course it does bud… “It prevents estrogen from binding at the breast tissue” {quoted from Bonez} - PREVENTING SOMETHING FROM DOING SOMETHING IS EXERTING CONTROL OVER IT! You’re playing word games to sound “right” if you’re trying to say control is the wrong word.
As for what I said about “tapering” - 6 weeks ‘homestatis’ and 6 weeks actual tapering = 12 weeks which again means that the process of coming off the 12 week cycle is as long as the cycle in question was itself. That was all I said. Now this isn’t an issue if 100mg/wk really isn’t suppressive, and maybe its not, I just don’t see any evidence saying it isn’t. All we have is anecdotal evidence from Prisoner as well as a few who have tried it.
[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
Food alone doesn’t count as Post Cycle Therapy - you need nolvadex as you outlined it. I wouldn’t do that taper thing. [/quote]
Can you explain why you choose to use nolvadex as a PCT as opposed to using a taper? [/quote]
Does tapering control estrogen? [/quote]
and to go with this.
I always liked to add an AI in with the typical Serm PCT
not only does the nolva block estrogen from certain tissues during your rebound and recovery but the AI like adex also helps to lower the total amount of estrogen floating around anyways.
IMO there is no need to taper when you run a standard cycle.
if you were on for years then it may make things a bit more comfortable, but with cycle you were shut down and you will not start to recover untill you are clear of your exo test so why prolong that with a test taper.
[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
Or you could have just answered my question. I don’t see any sort of evidence other than Prisoner saying “research shows” concerning whether there is actually no HPTA suppression during 100mg/wk of testosterone.
As for SERM controlling estrogen? of course it does bud… “It prevents estrogen from binding at the breast tissue” {quoted from Bonez} - PREVENTING SOMETHING FROM DOING SOMETHING IS EXERTING CONTROL OVER IT! You’re playing word games to sound “right” if you’re trying to say control is the wrong word.
As for what I said about “tapering” - 6 weeks ‘homestatis’ and 6 weeks actual tapering = 12 weeks which again means that the process of coming off the 12 week cycle is as long as the cycle in question was itself. That was all I said. Now this isn’t an issue if 100mg/wk really isn’t suppressive, and maybe its not, I just don’t see any evidence saying it isn’t. All we have is anecdotal evidence from Prisoner as well as a few who have tried it.
[/quote]
Youre missing the point about controlling estrogen in pct. Firstly, Serm pct should include an AI. This is common practice. Use of an Ai is also recommended at certain times during the taper. So I fail to see how both approaches differ in that regard. But even so, the whole point of the taper is to provide replacement levels of T. So in some/many(?) cases e2 will not grt out of control.
Secondly, you imply that preventing gyno is the priorty during pct. Its not. Simply running a serm after weeks of elevated t levels is estrogen rebound in the making. So obvioulsy one should taper off an Ai before SERM pct ends. Which means the ai is doing the estrogen control (which alsp aids in preventing negative feedback tht occurs with high e2) while the SERM stimulates Lh function to get natty T going again.
An what is your point about the length of the taper? What is the relevance of that for this topic?
What do you mean you dont see any evidence? Are you expecting jesus christ to materialize next to you with printouts of journals? Do the research and find the info instead of huffing and puffing because something is not color coded with step by step instructions
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
What do you mean you dont see any evidence? Are you expecting jesus christ to materialize next to you with printouts of journals? Do the research and find the info instead of huffing and puffing because something is not color coded with step by step instructions[/quote]
What are you talking about? All i see are anecdotal accounts actually of the test taper not working to maintain gains, libido, or general wellbeing. Everybody is always asking for evidence - I can just say all the shit I want but none of it means shit if it has no support in reality. I found a number of accounts of the taper not working for people. If Prisoner’s anecdotal evidence is the only support FOR the taper, then other members anecdotal accounts of the taper not working is just as good of evidence for it not working.
The whole point of a PCT is to make it so your natural functioning returns to normal. Continuing to provide exogenous test doesn’t seem that it would allow for that to happen. This is what I referred to in terms of no evidence - prisoner just says that through research, he has found that 100mg/wk of testosterone does not suppress the hpta.
What research? I see a number of cases where people did this taper protocol but still seemed highly shut down after this "homeostasis’ period.
The relevance of the length of the taper is the fact that you are turning a 12 week cycle (14 weeks of suppression) into at least 20 (12 weeks of cycle, 6 weeks of 100mg/wk, 2 weeks for that dosage to clear) weeks of suppression assuming that providing exogenous test will keep your natural test production suppressed.
By the way, no where did I talk about gyno. I talked about the SERM and its process of affecting the body’s release of LH in my third post on this thread.
I’m done arguing about this with you. I don’t believe that 100mg/wk of testosterone is in any way conducive to coming off a cycle in which the point is to get your natural system up and running again, so I believe the 6 week waiting period is completely useless, and even down to the week where you finally get to nearly 40mg/week, you’re still suppressing your natural production as you will be supplying your body with more testosterone that it naturally produced in the first place, continuing the suppression and inhibiting the return of your body’s natural system.