T Nation

PCT Question Regarding HCG and Toremifene


#1

I've searched many different combinations of words and could not find anything similar. I'm helping a buddy of mine with his cycle/pct. It was his first cycle, he ran 300mg of Test E for 16 weeks, and threw in Super DMZ 2.0 weeks 8-12. He made good gains and is pleased. He is now waiting for the esters to clear before beginning his serm. He used HCG on cycle, about 500 iu's when he felt the need, not exactly on a normal basis. But his testis are still full sized, never lost size.

My question is, would it be best for him to do an HCG blast before beginning the SERM (Toremifene 120/90/60/30) to sort of "prime" his testis, or is the fact that he used HCG on cycle and his testis are intact enough? I understand this strategy generally comes from guys who did not use HCG on cycle and are attempting to plump them back up, but like I said, would it be of any benefit?

I'm only asking because I'm on TRT and have not had to deal with PCT yet. Any other advice on the PCT protocol is greatly appreciated. I'm also curious if you guys think a shot of triptorelin would be helpful.

Thanks


#2

i wouldn't do a blast.... he could maybe use it a couple weeks, and stop a week prior to starting the tore.

is he running an AI right now?


#3

Hey man, thanks for the response I appreciate it. Totally forgot when posting that I'm a complete newbie to what I believe is the best training site/forum on the net, and expected responses. Kind of ignorant of me.

Anyway,

He is running anastrozole now. I plan to have him take 500iu HCG EOD this week, with .25 ml anastrozole each shot. When torem shows up he'll start with 60 mg a day during the week of HCG , then two days after last HCG shot, full SERM dosing of 120/90/60/30. So technically 60/120/90/60/30.
Also .5 ml of Anastrozole Monday and Friday.

Does this sound good? Overkill?


#4

honestly, i would not use HCG concurrently with a SERM. the HCG is essentially LH. and the SERM is used to bring LH up so that testosterone is raised (by blocking the ER). IMO, using HCG with a SERM at the same time is simply a waste of a week's worth or a SERM.

since HCG has is active for about a week, i'd wait a week after the last HCG shot to start the tore.

i'd just run the tore at 60 mg/day, as well. and, i'd taper the A-dex off after the tore is added...


#5

[/quote]

honestly, i would not use HCG concurrently with a SERM. the HCG is essentially LH. and the SERM is used to bring LH up so that testosterone is raised (by blocking the ER). IMO, using HCG with a SERM at the same time is simply a waste of a week's worth or a SERM.

since HCG has is active for about a week, i'd wait a week after the last HCG shot to start the tore.

i'd just run the tore at 60 mg/day, as well. and, i'd taper the A-dex off after the tore is added...
[/quote]

So you're saying you'd only run the torem at 60 throughout the four weeks? Instead of 120/90/60/30?

Or with the HCG for a week at 60, which is what I planned to do.


#6

i'd run it like this:

Weeks 1-16
Test E-600 mg
HCG-500 IU
A-dex-.25 mg

Week 17
HCG-500 IU
A-dex-.25 mg

Week 18
A-dex-.25 mg

Week 19
A-dex-.25 mg
Tore-60 mg

Week 20+
Tore-60 mg

(you don't need to stop the SERM after 4 weeks.... for some reason, a lot of folks act like PCT can only be a month long, but tore can keep raising test for up to 12 weeks. and 16 weeks is kind of a long cycle, so longer is generally better...)


#7

Makes sense. Like I said, he already did the cycle, at only 300 mg a week. Still made the gains he was looking for.

So I just had him take a shot of 500iu HCG today. I will have him take three more this week, before starting Torem on Sunday.

So you really don't believe it's necessary to run the torem any higher than 60 ED?

You're saying it'd be more suitable to run it at a lower dose for a longer period of time?

The Torem is RUI-Products 60ml x 60mg/ml. Would you suggest just using up the whole bottle over the course of 60 days?

Also, would low dose Anastrozole, say .25 once per week, be useful in negating an Estrogen rebound?

Sorry for so many questions. Again, this is my first go with PCT at all so I need to get this right considering it isn't even my testicles on the line.