T Nation

PCT losses

Ok guys, hope you can analyze my situation here and help me out. I?ve posted a couple of times here before, and have been reading around for about 1? years.
I planned to start of with a pretty mild cycle, since I?m really in no hurry and wanted to see how my body reacted to the roids.
I got my gear and started off on january 10th with a 2-on, 4-off cycle. My regimen for the first 13 days consisted of 50 mg tren and 50 mg oilbased winny ED. No frontloading on neither (which I just recently have understood to be a good a idea even for short acting esters :o/). On day 14 I got on my PCT and limited this to 50 mg liquid Clomid ED. Right now I?m on day 21, and sticking to the clomid for at least a couple of weeks more.
I?ll post my training, bodycomp and nutrition details as well, so you can analyze my gains/losses better;
I?m 5?6", and on january 10th I was at 165 pounds at around 13% BF.
About two weeks prior to my cycle I got on a 2500 kcal diet with about 240 g proteins/100 g carbs and the rest from fat. On january 10th I upped my intake to about 4000-4200 kcals (350p/500c/the rest from fat) and sticked to it for the coming 13 days. Training was a 3-split/5 days per week (as usual) with about 3 extra sets and extra forced reps, compared to precycle training.

After about one week my strength was noticably increased, and kept increasing for the next week as well. My weight increased by 13 pounds, all circumference measurements as well, yet my calipers stayed the same all over. For example my upperarm measurement increased by very close to an inch, as well as my thighs. As expected there were no visible bloating during the cycle, nor any other sides.

On day 14 I returned to my precycle diet (2500/240k/100c). Today, one week later, I?ve lost 10 of those 13 gained pounds. My upperarm measurement has dropped 5/8" and about the same for my thighs. Calipers has dropped 2mm for the lateroumbicular spot, and my waist has dropped by ~1". However I DID NOT expect to lose my gains so quickly, and have a hard time seeing that glycogen/water storage would be such a big factor.

So… hope you guys can help me out here.

ill give you a simple and honest answer…eat more!

I hear you, p-dog. However my long term plan is to alternate these short cycles with postcycle diet phases. I think Bill Roberts advocated it in one of his articles.
Would you say that my losses in lean mass mostly can be explained by me going hypocaloric to quickly? And that I would save more mass by letting my endogenous production stabilize first?

you do not diet post cycle! common sense should tell you that. when your on, your in the greatest hormonl state possible, when you come off your in the worst. the last thing you need is to be cutting calories and putting yourself in a catabolic state.

P-dog is right. Nothing is more anabolic than food. You can manipulate your diet in ways to shock your body with the macronutrients you ingest. Shocking your body on and off with a cycle is one thing, but cycling it on and off with your diet is something else.

Up your caloric intake as you did, but stay at that level throughout your cycle when you’re on AND off your gear. See what happens.

another thing. it is not only diet but training needs to be adjusted as well. total volume should be reduced and perhaps even a week off. i would also cut out any cardio for a few weeks.

Also take into consideration that you went from 2500cal/day then jumped to 4000 ca/day. Most people will add alot of water. Wether you realize it or not I believe some of your gains were definitely from water. From there you need to realize (like pdog said) your body is very vulnerable when coming off, so your cals should be around maintenance, till your hormones are back in order, then diet after that.

I agree that what you are saying makes sense. Obviously cutting back on the calories so quickly has robbed me of a major part of my gains. Sure I calculated some of the weight difference in the form of water due to the change in calories, but I?d still say that most of the difference consists of lean mass. I did cut back on the intensity of my training this week, starting of on a wholebody scheme with higer repranges hst-style.

Do you think my previous approach could be turned to a more productive one, had I used a bridging protocol? Say 100-200 mg Test Enanthate weekly, starting the last day?