PCT- Long Cycle

I’ve been on a test prop cycle for 20+ weeks @ 400-525mg/week. Anavar, Masteron, Arimdex, and HCG (in frequently used) throughout for 10 weeks.

Long story short I had some unexpected life changes that lead me to choose to stay on the test prop only for longer than anticipated…It’s time to hit an aggressive PCT and recover ASAP…

I have nolvadex and clomid on hand but am having a hard time acquiring HCG…is the HCG necessary? Any tips for a speedy recovery are much appreciated.

Test stasis and taper. Put that into the search function on here.

SB

Ok the whole reason for performing PCT is to get our bodies to produce their own “HCG.” It’s not that simple but actually kind of is.

We use HCG on cycle to keep our balls producing testosterone, basically resist shutting down. That is the current method of HCG usage.
The old school method is just blast it at high levels for a few weeks to a month or so right before PCT. That versions concept is get the boys back on so when we get our bodies to tell it self to produce testosterone it won’t have to spend the time turning the boys back on.

So no you don’t have to have HCG for PCT. You said you did use it for a while, how long ago did you stop? The way you wrote it out it sounded like you used it for about ten weeks then didn’t use it for ten weeks. So you would have had about ten weeks where your balls were shutdown, that’s about a normal cycles length of time. Many many many guys have run longer than ten weeks cycles and used just Nolvadex to recover just fine. Guys have run cycles longer than 20 weeks and just run Nolvadex PCT and recovered fine. Of course some guys take one shot of AAS and have issues the rest of their lives but they are the odd ball weird one off situations. Most guys recover just fine. I dont think you have anything to worry about. Just figure out if you want to run only Nolvadex or only clomid or do you want to run both?

The standard concept of PCT is you take a double dose a day for two weeks then a single dose a day for two weeks. A standard dose of Nolvadex is 20mgs and clomid is 50mgs. So if you take both then it’s one of each for two weeks then half of each for two weeks.

Since you were on all short esters you shouldn’t have any lingering synthetic hormones causing issues with recovering your hpta loop. However if you are just really concerned because you ran a 20 week cycle then add an additional two weeks into the standard four week PCT. During the last two extra weeks just take half of a dose or 10mgs of Nolvadex for a week then the next week either do 10mgs EOD or 5mgs per day.

Your PCT and recovery should go fine.

I did a cycle very similar to this recently. I used HCG for the last 6 weeks and had a good PCT. I think you should try to get the HCG until you can’t. Just type “hcg pct domestic shipping” into google and you will at least find something.

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Gentlemen- Thanks for the feedback.

At the 8 week mark is when I started incorporating HCG @ 500 iu/wk (2 pins/wk @ 250 ius)…I was having estrogen spikes (even with the Arimdex ), therefore I backed off; however, I did pin a total of over 5000 ius (infrequently) from weeks 8 - 20.

I say all this to say that I DID NOTICE the boys would get primmed with HCG and also to highlight that the cycle was not abscent HCG it was just infrequent. Also, I noticed the boys would get primed when administered.

The plan moving forward would be along these lines:

HCG (500 ius ED or EOD for 10 days after the last pin of test prop) and then PCT with Nolva for 6 weeks 40/40/20/20/10/10 (my pills are 50 mgs).

The problem is I still dont have HCG and unless someone chimes in and says I should incorporate clomid (which I have on hand) I’m going to leave it out.

I haven’t pinned test prop in 4 days so it looks like I’ll just be going until day 10 and proceeding with PCT; however, my boys are pretty well shrunk up!! I feel like HCG would remedy this.

Thoughts?

My PCT was like this:
Week 1: 20mg Nolva AM, 50mg Clomid PM, everyday
Week 2: Same as week 1, except first 3 days I upped Clomid to 75mg, last 4 days I upped Nolva to 30mg
Week 3: Same as week 1 but dropped clomid to 25mg
Week 4: Same as week 3 but dropped clomid to every other day
Week 5-6: Nolva 20mg only everyday

I also used Aromasin sparingly the first few weeks, like 6.25mg 2x a week, just to really keep my pituitary from seeing a new source of estrogen (likely wasn’t necessary). I tapered down to 1.125mg 2x week in week 6.

I had also used 10000iu of hcg during the 6 weeks prior to my PCT.

I felt great the entire time I was on PCT and I still do. Sure, I lost a little strength, like 10%, but I maintained almost all my bodyweight gains and never lost drive or felt depressed. Take that for what it’s worth.

HCG is on the way…

I’m now a week out from my last test prop pin…esters should be clear and I’m not feeling too bad (shrunk up nuts).

I’m leaning on: 750ius HCG/A dex (EOD for 4 pins)
taper down to 250 ius (until 5000 ius is gone)

Then 6 weeks PCT as follows:

Clomid: 50/50/25/25
Nolva: 50/50/25/25/25/25 (my Nolva are 50mg tabs)

Any and all critiques welcome

Some things are definitely funky about your PCT but I think you will recover if you get through that protocol lol.

A bit unclear on when you plan to start PCT. If you take HCG after the Test Prop, make sure to wait about 7-10 days for the HCG to clear out before starting the SERM.

Forget the Clomid, it is a terrible SERM/drug in general. You will get many opinions on SERM dosing. If your Nolvadex is real, pharma grade you are way overdosing yourself. These are breast cancer drugs. Do 10mg EOD for 1 month, it is more than enough. More will not be any more beneficial; Sufficient is the key to binding the receptors. Excess will simply give you more side effects and make you feel awful.

Perhaps… but no, I don’t believe this to be the case. LH/FSH stimulation of test via tamoxifen is mediated by the drug metabolites ability (tamox is a prodrug, in itself it actually has very little affinity for the ER) to block estrogen mediated negative feedback loop in the hypothalamus. Theoretically for the fastest recovery (and more side effects) you’d WANT as much ER occupancy via tamoxifen (perhaps complete saturation, but I don’t know as to what dose this would occur). Theoretically this would induce a faster recovery, and literature regarding tamoxifen used to treat hypogonadism typically implements higher “bodybuilding” style dosages

https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(15)01402-8/abstract

You still have the estrogen circulating within the body, so it won’t fuck you up like an AI will (may even exert a positive effect on lipids)… however neurotoxicity perhaaapsssss… all these drugs have risks though

Yes, it is indeed a prodrug that also converts to norendoxifen which is on par with letrozole in ability to decrease aromatase activity. Again, males will not need more than 10mg EOD; More simply brings more side effects.

“Besides acting as SERMs, it has recently been found that some of tamoxifen’s metabolites also act as aromatase inhibitors in vitro [Articles:21390495, 21814747]. Aromatase converts steroids (e.g., testosterone to estradiol), the inhibition of which severely decreases the amount of available estrogen in the body. A previously unrecognized metabolite of tamoxifen, norendoxifen, is the most potent aromatase inhibitor of the tamoxifen metabolites. It caused the same decrease in vitro in aromatase activity as letrozole, a drug that is exclusively marketed as an aromatase inhibitor [Article:21814747].”

https://www.pharmgkb.org/pathway/PA145011119

Yes, I’m aware a higher dose equates to more side effects

But this guy is trying to recover from a long cycle regarding supraphysiolgoical dosages of AAS. Typically these individuals aren’t entirely focused on optimum health and longevity. The goal from pct is more “how can I recover ASAP and keep gains” thus a medium is required. Going the “minimum effective dosage” route may be effective, but for someone not entirely mediated upon the potential adverse effects, more focused on recovery a higher dosage may be able to stimulate LH/FSH output more rapidly.

We have very little in the way of literature regarding pct protocols. In terms of treating hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism, 20mg/day appears to be effective according to literature

Theoretically one can recover without PCT, but it’ll take about 3-6 months, such a duration will lead to a significant period of time wherein the body is in a profoundly catabolic state

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I don’t think he should wait. The worst that happens is he takes Nolva for one extra week.

I’m 10 days out from last test prop pin and still haven’t received my HCG. Due to the fact that I used HCG on/off the cycle I’m leaning on starting PCT (Clomid/Nolva) TODAY and not worrying about HCG for recovery (as opposed to blasting the HCG/arimdex and waiting to begin PCT for X period of time).

Seems like I should just get the PCT party started and plan it to be a little longer than standard (low dosage at 2 weeks beyond typical 4 week nolva/clomid protocal)

Thoughts?

start it now and run the SERM until you feel normal. go to the doctor if you feel like shit 8 weeks from now.

Last night (10 days from last test prop pin) I took 50mg Clomid/50 mg Nolva.

My Nolva pills are 50 mgs, so I guess I’ll just be doing 50mg (as opposed to 40) and then 25 (as opposed to 20).

I’m not feeling too bad but am sure I have lost quite a bit of strength due to lack of training during the holidays. I’m hopping I don’t hit a crash and/or side effects from PCT next week when I’m on vacation snowboarding…No. 1 priority is overall recovery (everything comes with a cost)!

If you’re not even working out as frequently as you were on cycle then don’t expect to keep an optimal amount of gains.

I appreciate the feedback- Are these 50 mg Tamoxifen (nolvadex) tabs I have a dosage concern?
My clomid is 25 mgs tabs

Geez the more I read the more confused I get. I have done (2) other similar 16 week cycles and recovered fine with:

4 weeks:
Nolva- 40,40,20,20
Clomid - 50,50,25,25

Probably over thinking it!

You’re overthinking it like crazy now.

How possible do you think recovery can be for a 22 year old who’s only ran test, and sarms I wanna pct cus working out is not my thing anymore.