T Nation

PCT Help


#1

Hi guys,
Just a question I need to be confirmed.
Im on the 4th week of my PCT coming off a cycle of 8 weeks at 800mg/wk of Test400 with Dbol for 4 weeks. Cycle went well, gained around 7 pounds of quality mass, I should have gained more but mistakes happen. My problem now is Im coming to the end of my PCT trying to drop my nolva dose to 20mg/day, however when I do I feel I start developing a lump under one nipple and the existing lump (not related to this cycle) seems to flare up.

I dont know if its just my mind but im forced to jump back to 40mg sometimes 60mg of Nolva. Also, my libido is next to nothing, I understand this is normal but I dont know what the problem is, estrogen too high? or estrogen too low?


#2

Anyone? Saps? BBB? BONEZ?


#3

What ester is the test400? What was the time between your last injection and when you started PCT? No arimidex?


#4

I used Adex on cycle, .5mg E3D. It was around 16 days between the last injection and PCT commencement as the longest ester of test400 was undecanoate.


#5

What were your PCT dosages so far per day? 40mg/day for 4 weeks?


#6

DId you taper off the arimidex?


#7

PCT dosages so far were mixed, Ive been up to 80mg a day when I felt I started developing abit of gyno then tapered down 40mg, after that tried slowing down to 20mg a day but felt I started getting lumpy again so had to jump back up to 40mg. BONEZ yes I tapered off the Adex, took it up to the first day of PCT tapering down slowly.


#8

Jacked Fibraz, im on 5th week of PCT now at 40mg/day with no signs of recovery yet.


#9

The only thing I can suspect is that your nolva could be way underdosed then. Do you trust your source from where you got it?


#10

Thats what I was thinking too, its the first time Ive got anything from this new source so I dont know 100%, underdosed is the only logical explanation I guess. Ive got my hands on some clomid today which I am going to run 150/100/50 and see where that takes me, hopefully admist all that I might get my libido back somewhat.


#11

Did you get the clomid from the same source?


#12

No, I got the clomid from a different source.


#13

Undecanoate has a really long half life, it can be over 20 days in some cases. I have a feeling you might have mis-timed your pct.


#14

I see, I knew the half life of Undecanoate was a long one but not as long as 20 days? If its true that I might have mis-timed my PCT, then this being the 5th week of PCT should have been my 3rd or 4th week? So what your saying is that my levels of test would have fallen later than what I predicted, so where does this leave me now? Carry on PCT as usual?


#15

Did you use hCG on cycle?

I shut down badly a year ago on a 6-week cycle of prop!! Tried everything -nolva, clomid, adex, waiting it out (6months) - eventually tried high dose hCG and got everything back online. I know people here are critical of high dose hCG (it was 8 shots of 2500iu over 16-days) but it worked for me when everything else had failed.

To put things in perceptive though - expecting to feel "normal" after 4-weeks of PCT is probably a bit ambitious!


#16

No I didnt use hCG on cycle, I know I should have but didnt know a clear protocol to follow. Ive read on here though that using hCG post-cycle defeats the purpose of recovery? As in when the hCG effects on the leydig cells wears off ill be back where I am now, correct me if im wrong.


#17

It depends on how much undecanoate was in the mixture. For high concentration gear there would be quite a bit I would expect, so you could still be feeling the effects of suppression and/or estrogen, hence the gyno symptoms. You can either wait it out, which I think is a dubious idea, or you can do another PCT, and I would include hcg to get the nuts back online, and make sure you have proper nolva. And considering the long half life, I would probably get back on the arimidex to keep the estrogen down.


#18

The research I have read indicates your testes take longer to recover in comparison to pituitary and LH secretion. Once your nolva situation is corrected I would use hCG followed by clomid and nolva for 4-weeks.


#19

Ok, what hCG protocol do you recommend?


#20

Try 500iu 3 x a week until sex drive/libido picks up then do clomid and nolva.

I used 2500iu EOD for 16 days - but had been shutdown for a year