T Nation

PCT for Restart TRT with HCG

I just saw a post where a guy was asked if he ever did a cycle without PCT. I did take oral testosterone for 30 days and the pct was over the counter stuff that did not help. That could be why I have low test or the years of heavy drinking. Fast forward to now and I have been doing TRT 300mg per week without the HCG pulse. So I want to stop and conduct a rational PCT then return to TRT using HCG pulsing this time as prescribed here.

So I have a few bottles of HCG and was also given Tamoxifen. I am not crystal clear on what the PCT was supposed to be. I think its a 2 week washout after the last injection followed by 2000 IU of HCG EOD until exhausted while also taking the Tamoxifen.

Does that sound like an appropriate PCT ?

Start hCG now to recover the testes. Does not need to be high dose. When they hang normally, size restored and firmed up, taper off of the T onto tamoxifen. That will get the pituitary back in the game. Then taper off of the tamoxifen. You need to be landing on lower estrogen levels or you will have HPTA inhibition.

If you are now needing 300mg/week, I don’t know how you would manage even if you could recover T production to the levels of normal young men.

These attempts do not work out well.

I tapped one HCG bottle and was told to wait till PCT so it sat in the fridge for over a month, I decided to try the pulse with it anyway, never felt anything.

I think I meed the full blast of high dose HCG jump start.

So your outlining HCG now at 250 IU ? Sounds like you dont think I need the 2000 IU EOD. Then when they recover halt the T and begin the tamoxifen ?

I can cut back the T to 100 per week to reduce my E2 levels although I think the adex clone will do that but it just makes sense to get to a low weekly amount before halting the T.

So are my odds better to go for the old school dramatic jump start ( halt T begin HCG Tamoxifen ) or are they better if I do the HCG with the T. There is that 2 week rinse out period that I would need to cross, if I ran out of HCG, stopped the T and waited 2 weeks to begin the tamoxifen I wonder what the result would be. If I go with the classic old school jumpstart I am in control of the timing.

Thanks for the help.

I am not familiar with pulse.
250iu EOD, not ED

High doses can down regulate your LH receptors. What happens then when your own LH shows up and the LH receptors are down regulated. You need to condition your testes to respond to normal amounts of LH stimulation, that is where you are trying to get to.

Sounds like the jumpstart is just a bad idea then.

So I could start 250 IU EOD but at what point do I throw in the towel and say it is simply not working, maybe that one I tried went bad since it sat in the fridge for 2 months after I mixed it. Maybe I just dont respond to HCG which would mean I am ‘primary’ hypogonadal.

“LH receptors are down regulated”

Very clear, started the HCG, will taper down and switch to Tamoxifin.

Is it possible that I have down regulated my androgen recepters with 300mg per week and why I no longer feel it despite the Adex addition and low body fat ?

I was once told that what up regulates androgen sensitivity is … estrogen.

I was under the impression that with that dose of T your levels were not high. Was I wrong?

Estrogen blocks T receptors as the molecule is quite similar to T. E reduces benefits of whatever T level you have when elevated.

True, my Free T is not that high, now I am taking Stinging Nettle twice daily and I am using much more adex. The problem is the previous doctor/clinic was not real forthcoming I never got my labs sent to me as promised. Then they went out of business.

By going thru direct labs once per month I plan to follow what is outlined here exactly.

Right now things are confusing, I had to take prednisone a catabolic steroid, which my GI doctor insisted I take for 8 weeks. Knowing what it did to me before I got off after 2 weeks. Gut took a step back as would be expected and I am taking anything to boost my own cortisol which is ironic because I was suppressing it and I think that is what caused the flare. Now I will back off since my adrenals seem to have woken up and I will consume foods that have worked in my protocol for the flare in the past. However I wont tamper with suppressing cortisol again and will throw out my Phosphytidlserene bottles.

So that leaves me with my first ever massive breakout of acne on my back, never had anything like that before in my life.

So I am going to plan an a slow taper of T and adex while applying the HCG I started yesterday and do the PCT with tamoxifen. I have 3 all night efforts with no sleep scheduled in the next 10 days at the job so it will be best to attempt the PCT after that in say 3 weeks. I think I will get bloodwork for a variety of reasons next week, then at the conclusion of PCT and monthly after restarting TRT.

Thanks again

[quote]KSman wrote:
Start hCG now to recover the testes. Does not need to be high dose. When they hang normally, size restored and firmed up, taper off of the T onto tamoxifen. That will get the pituitary back in the game. Then taper off of the tamoxifen. You need to be landing on lower estrogen levels or you will have HPTA inhibition. [/quote]

Do I halt the HCG when firmed up and initiating the taper off T or do I keep them going until 2 weeks later when all T is gone then at that time pull the HCG and see if the body makes them both ?