T Nation

PCT for Non Steroid User to Boost Testosterone


#1

Hey folks have decided to do a 4 week PCT even though I have not done any cycles. Reason being is I would like to get my testosterone levels a little higher if I could (Double would be great).

Currently levels are around 14nmol/L and I would like to get them to the top of the normal range.

My FSH and LH are at 2 (range 1-10) so someone in my TSH thread pointed out that maybe I could do with some nolvadex and run a PCT course.

I decided to make a new thread since this is not that related to my TSH thread and I wanted to get some pointers from guys here.

I was thinking of doing a 4 week course:

Weeks 1&2 - 40mg Nolvadex everyday
Weeks 3&4 - 20mg Nolvadex everyday

Now my questions:
1. Is 40mg excessive since no steroid use?
2. Should the doses be split? ( for example take 10mg in morning and 10mg at night for 20mg total ?)
3. Do I need to know my E2 values before starting this PCT? Or should I just go with my plan?

After 5 weeks I will get my blood tested and see if it had any positive effect. I figure if my FSH and LH levels go mid range like 5 or something I should see direct improvement in my Testosterone levels.

I am having difficulty sourcing Arimidex, while Nolvadex I can source.


#2

Stupid idea.

Any effect would be fleeting. (Im not saying there will be a noticeable effect either, possibly an increase on paper, but probably nothing in reality)

Contiunuous AI use to maximize natural testosterone production has merit.


#3

You may want to look in to the effect hCG would have on incraeseing your T levels. Secondary hypogonadism.


#4

BONEZ - what do you do for a living? [/hijack]


#5

law student


#6

The reason I wanted to try a 4 week course is to kick start my system again and maybe it would continue to produce more testosterone after stopping with Nolvadex.

I understand that using AI day in day out would probably be better but that is another pill that I have to take daily for the rest of my life. If I could get away with just kick starting my test production again and it would continue to produce more testosterone then that would be great.

Do you think this is not possible?

GP's have said having testosterone values between 800-1000 will have no effect as to having values between 300-400.

An Endo on the other hand did not agree with that. Lots of mixed information out there, but I personally think having more can do no harm.

I'll look into HCG.


#7

What is your HPTA shutdown from, that it needs kickstarting? Im not sure Im following. It sounds like you have low testosterone, naturally. (you didnt provide a reference range for your T level, but I assume from your post that it's low)

It could either be primary or secondary hypogonadism. Have you been to the TRT forum here?


#8

D-aspartic acid it will give you 40% increase on average


#9

FSH = 2IU/L (1-10)
LH = 2IU/L (1-10)

Testosterone = 13.9nmol/L (8.3 - 30.2)
SHBG = 29nmol/L (13-71)
Calculated Free Testosterone = 304pmol/L (225-725)

Not sure why my LH and FSH levels are on the low end. Nothing really comes to mind what could be causing that.

My T levels are in the range but if I could get them higher up that would make me a lot happier via some nolvadex. Maybe it would continue to be elevated once off nolvadex.


#10

As I said D-asp acid, it will increase LH, FSH and testosterone. Statistically a rise is seen in just over a week. Subjectively I notice after around 3-weeks


#11

Only if testosterone production was being limited by estrogen


#12

That is good news! If I can get 40% increase that would be great. So by the sounds of it I will try a 4 week trial of 20mg daily. Get some blood drawn after 5 weeks and check out the results. I also hope that this will help with raising my LH and FSH levels after I stop the nolvadex.

thanks for the info!


#13

True


#14

What? Cy has said TWICE now that D-Aspartic Acid will cause the 40% increase. Why are you still mentionining nolvadex? If you have no plan to listen to advice why did you come here?


#15

People will see what they want to see, not what you tell them !

I'm sure as a law student you will find that alot.

Also first I've head of D-Aspartic acid.

From several pages of perusal reading, would not Arimadex + D-Aspartic go together quite nicely ?

If it increases the rate of test production, wouldn't your body seeking homeostasis upping the opposite (estrogen) ?


#16

What would you consider appropriate estrogen levels in a male ?

As in levels where on paper you wouldn't think it was limiting Test production.


#17

My mistake, I for some reason overlooked that and thought that was another name for Nolvadex (not sure why silly of me).
I think I was sitting in front of the computer for too long yesterday fried my brain.

Looking at D-Aspartic acid it is another one of those natural testosterone boosters. Having bad experiences with Tribulus which was another natural test booster (did absolutely nothing for raising testosterone levels after 3 months of use)

Cy sounds like you have tried it, can you confirm that your test levels were elevated by 40% via blood tests? Supplement companies are great at marketing.

I guess I was so hooked onto Nolva after viewing a youtube video of some specialist talking about Arimidex,Clomid,Nolvadex for raising test levels and how successful it was.


#18

It works. There is evidence in the literature for it - both in humans and rats. It has been used in Italy for a considerable period of time as a fertility aid in men and has been demonstrated to increase sperm count, in these cases it is used for 6-months without side effects.

I have used it to help me recover from AAS induced very low testosterone. Blood tests demonstrated that it took me to very high levels (outside normal upper ranges for the UK). I used it for 3-months without stopping and the only side effects I have noted are that my testosterone levels have remained well into the upper ranges (this has to be at least 6-months since I last used D-aspartic acid). I have a belief that we "teach" our body not to produce T when using AAS and using D-asp acid has "taught" my body to produce it agin.

I had no need for estrogen control when using, noticed spots and greasy skin after about 2-weeks and my morning wood was ridiculous to say the least - bordering on painful!!


#19

Sounds good Cymru. The experience you have is exactly what I would like to have. Testosterone levels in the upper rnage even elevated would be fantastic. I will have to give it a go as it sounds like this might be the real deal not like Tribulus.

I guess my only other question which I have not been able to find a definitive answer, do higher testosterone values help in the gym. I mean having elevated levels within the standard range.

For example if my levels are around 13 nmol/L will I notice strength gains weight gain etc.. with levels at 30 nmol/L? Both these levels are within range, one low end one upper end.

People seem to have different opinions on this subject so it is very hard to come to some conclusion. I guess the only way is to find out for yourself.

I have been stuck on a plateau for the last year or so and can't seem to break it. Maybe this supplement will help me get over the hurdle..

Thanks for the heads up on this supplement definitely worth a try.

BTW. Which brand did you use??


#20

If his FSH/LH are confirmed low, why would using a SERM (which increases those) be a stupid idea?

From what I've seen on the TRT forum here and others on the net, a SERM can be used to temporarily increase FSH/LH, which, if not primary hypogonadal, will lead to an increase in testosterone production. From there (this could just be theory) the HPTA is "rebooted" so to speak and will continue producing the proper hormones as one slowly tapers off the SERM.

I don't see why this is any different than using a SERM for PCT after an AAS cycle, since FSH/LH have been suppressed there as well and the SERM kickstarts the HPTA back into full production.

At the very least, it would tell him if his observed secondary hypogonadism is going to be a lifelong problem (i.e. his pituitary does not start and/or continue the higher FSH/LH production).