T Nation

PCT After Taking Clomid During TRT


#1

First post here, so I’ll summarize my post in a few sentences for those that only have time for the highlights. I am looking for a PCT program with Clomid and Letro. I have 50 tabs of 50mg Clomid left and about the same of Letro at 2.5mg each. I am guessing that I should start a standard Clomid with AI protocol for 4 or so weeks. However how my scenario is different from most is I have been taking Clomid during my TRT, so I’m wondering if anyone has experience with running a PCT after that scenario, or can advise if I should do anything differently. That’s the cliff notes, if you want more details regarding how long I was on Clomid monotherapy and when I started taking extraneous testosterone shots, along with before and after labs, my story is below. Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

I first went to a TRT doc in June 2017 after struggling with the usual Low-T symptoms. I was hesitant to get on TRT because I wasn’t sure Low-T was the root cause of my problems so I tried Clomid monotherapy (50mg/daily) from July 2017 thru October 2017 (approx 3 mo). Here are my baseline #'s before starting the Clomid:

Total T: 424
Free T: 7.37
FSH: 3.1
LH: 2.3
Estrogen: 40

I got my blood drawn monthly while on Clomid monotherapy for the next 4 months. My first set of labs indicated that I was responding well to the treatment after a month on paper, my LH and FSH along with Total and Free Test improved dramatically, however my E2 was still sky high and I didn’t feel really that much better. Over the next several months ended up trying different dosages of the Clomid and different AI’s, starting with Arimidex then switching to Letrozole.

Nothing brought my estrogen levels down over the four months, they bounced between 70-80. From research it appears this is because the estrogen was being created inside my testicles from the Clomid stimulation vs. from extraneous testosterone administration. So in November 2017 I started taking 400mg/week of test, but my Dr. told me to stay on the Clomid (at a dose of 25mg/daily) instead of taking hGC, and continue with the Letro at 2.5mg daily.
So for the last 3 months up until this week, that has been my protocol. I can’t say with any conviction that my symptoms greatly improved, even with the below blood test results as of this past month:

Total T: >1200
Free T: >50
FSH: 19.2
LH: 18.8
Estrogen: 22

First, I realize the test dose was much higher than the average. My doctor said he wanted to start at that level to see if my symptoms subsided right away since I had already done so much experimenting with the Clomid monotherapy doses and no improvement in how I felt. With those numbers my Dr. said in theory I should not be experiencing any typical Low T symptoms, however the only real difference I can feel is with my muscular development and a somewhat better mood with less depressing thoughts. After reviewing last months results with my Dr., he suggested that if I really wasn’t seeing a large improvement in symptoms, and I didn’t want to stay on TRT, then I should try hCG monotherapy. I declined as I feel exhausted with all the appointments, researching forums, blood draws, pins, etc. I figured that if I go off everything and feel the same, then I know without a doubt my low T like symptoms are from something else.

I told him I just wanted to cease all treatment, but wanted to know if I should continue with my Clomid and AI on a taper PCT. He said that was not necessary, so I am back on the forums and this time posting in the hopes of getting some help, because I cannot find info on a PCT to use when one has taken Clomid daily during their TRT. I don’t think hCG will do anything to help since my LH/FSH levels are already high from the continued Clomid use while taking TRT. Thank you for any input you can provide with my situation.


#2

You need to find a new doctor immediately, 400mg weekly isn’t TRT and isn’t taught anywhere. Your T and E2 levels must have been crazy high, anyone would have felt terrible. The reason you have such a poor idea of what TRT can really do for you has to do with your doctor, your doctor failed you, not TRT. I couldn’t even handle 200mg every 14 days, felt terrible.

Your doctor should be able to know if you would benefit from TRT simply by looking at your labs, seems like he has trouble with that and decided to give you a massive dose of T and lets see what happens! Insane!

This doctor is dangerous!


#3

400mg a week is beyond TRT but just to play devil’s advocate… I’ve got buddies doing way more than that with no AI whatsoever. They are running 3 or 4 compounds at a time and only take nolvadex is they start getting itchy nipples. Obviously they aren’t monitored by a doctor or anything but I’m just saying.


#4

am interested in this. So the guys running a cycle dont really care about high e2 because its temporary duration cycle? ANd the SERM just prevents the gyno? ANd so how do they have sex and deal with the other high e2 symptoms?


#5

My good buddy I lift with and work with runs cycles on and off all year. 4 week pct consisting only of Clomid. He has never taken arimidex in his life or any other kind of AI. I’ve asked him the same question about sex and he said he has never experienced ED ever. He just raves about how big and hard his erections are on cycle. He tried to talk me into doing a cycle before I started TRT but I didn’t want to screw myself up before seeing a doc. I don’t know how he pulls it all off. I know lots of guys just like him. Hell I’ve got a buddy that was ON for three years straight with no breaks whatsoever and one day he just quit. He seems fine to me. Has a good job. Beautiful family. No complaints. He was a freaking monster when he was on. Legs like tree trunks.


#6

It must be something in the"other" compounds. That’s cool. If I ever accumulate enough extra t. I may try something like that.


#7

You were on 2.5mg Letro every day?!? That’s an insane dosage. Like…guys who run a gram of test and half a gram of tren don’t use that much Letro. No wonder you feel like Hell. Letro is basically the last resort when guys start to get gyno. It’s not for regular guys who are on trt (or in your case a low dose cycle). Is your doctor an actual doctor? Because your protocol is juuuuust short of malpractice (not literally, but you get my point).


#8

Thanks everyone for the responses. I will definitely look into a different doctor if I decide to try TRT again.

For my main question, I’m also all ears with any suggestions around PCT at this point. My last test shot was 5 days ago, I am still taking the Clomid and Letro. Would you suggested staying at 25mg/day Clomid for another two weeks and then move to 25/mg EOD? Doesn’t seem like I should need to front load with 50mg/day since my LH and FSH are already through the roof. I can also start cutting the Letro in half taking only 1.25mg per day, but that’s as low as I can go with these pills. I was switched from Arimidex from Letro while I was on Clomid monotherapy since my E2 was hovering around 80 on the Arimidex as my AI.